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Old May 28, 2012, 02:52 AM
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Marty B's Avatar
UK, Isle of Anglesey, Holyhead
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Mix and Match?

I was just wondering if there is any reason why I can't buy and fit a different wing on an exsisting F3K model?
I have a plane (which shall remain nameless) that I just can't get to fly, I bought it second hand but it just dosn't proform half as well as my Akcent, or launch as high.
Would there be an advantage in just replacing the wing?
Any thoughts?
Marty
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Old May 28, 2012, 03:15 AM
G_T
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Depends on whether the wing is the issue or not!

Yes, you can mix and match. Mounting angle of the wing may end up being a little off, but in general it should be close enough to at least not be robbing much performance.

Launching high is lack of flutter in flaperons, lightness of extremities, stiffness of rudder setup, stiffness of tailboom, vertical tail design, wing design, dihedral angle, roughly in that order. If the fuselage or rudder setup is the difference for launch then changing the wing may not help the launch.

Most current planes can perform at least fairly decently. Often the difference is setup rather than the plane. I've seen numerous cases of setups which were just simply far enough off that the plane really couldn't perform all that well. A little adjustment, and it is a new plane.

Also, planes emphasize different styles of flying. Try to fly a Twister-II as if it were a Fr3aK Zone, or vice-versa, and one will surely be disappointed. One needs to fly to a plane's strengths, not a plane's weaknesses. That can actually be a fair bit of a learning curve.

Wing loading affects things quite a bit as well.

Also check for warps. Fix any you find. Warps will mess with you!

If your current wing is heavy, then putting a lighter one on may help a number of things.

So, yes, you can swap out a wing. Will it be an advantage? Way too little info to make a judgement call on that one!

Gerald
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Old May 28, 2012, 03:42 AM
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Thanks Gerald, I don't want to mention the name of the model because I maybe something has happened in the hands of the former owner that is affecting it. If that is the case it would be unfair to give the model "Bad press" if you see what I mean.
The model in question is trimmed out with a nice level flat glide, it's transverse balance is ok, in the dive test it gently pulls up. I havn't weighed it though .
The model feels clumsy in the launch, doesn't climb as high as the Akcent although it is climbing at about the same angle. In flight it just seems sluggish.
Maybe I'll give it the benifit of the doubt and fly it some more ..... trouble is, it just doesn't seem to give me the same enjoyment flying it. I bought it as a back up model for comps which I have just started to do..
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Old May 28, 2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty B View Post
In flight it just seems sluggish.
You might be trying to fly it too slowly. Different designs and set ups need to fly at different speeds.
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:37 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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Joined May 2002
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I may be stating some things you already know, but as Mike said above try a different speed. Try different camber settings. Even though it passes the dive test, move the CG a couple of MM each way. Weigh it and if it's not terribly heavy put an ounce in. Decrease your throws (like with a Dual Rate switch) and force yourself to fly with less authority, which forces you to fly a bit faster and be more ahead of the airplane.

I've had models that I absolutely hated because they just didn't fly as well as other models. Those that I kept (usually as backups) long enough to work out almost ALWAYS proved to be the model setup and not the model itself. There are airplanes that are real turds but generally not many.

If I were you, for a sluggish airplane I'd try in order:

Move the CG back.
Reduce camber.
Reduce throws and fly faster.

If nothing else, you'll know you gave it a good go before tossing it up on the "for sale" forum.
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:07 AM
Now fortified with carbon
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check to see that the elevator is centring properly. A poor centring servo will trim a bit slow after a UP command then trim to fast after a down command. This can real make a glider appear to be a real lemon and its not always easy to identify.
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:27 AM
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Marty:

On the other hand, I had an Epona wing, and mounted it to my Light Speed fuselage. It worked fine, either way: Epona or Light Speed. The Epona wing was hell for stout, and the Light Speed wing was feather light, so I had two airplanes, for the price of one-and-a-half.

Yours, Greg
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:30 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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That's exactly why I don't make parts that are exclusive to my airframe. If we put some pressure on the manufacturers to make stuff that's somewhat interchangable, we're all better for it.
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:40 AM
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Thanks for the replies.
The last time I flew, it was a calm night up the Great Orme which is a big lump of rock which sticks out into the sea on the N. Wales coast and a preferred site for Slope soaring. THe the wind had died to a whisper. So, I first flew my Binary 900 which was just about holding it's own in the scratchy lift so I put the Akcent up and it flew and gained height. The "other" model was next and as with the Binary, it was just about holding it's own. I had a play with the cambers but to honest, 3 or 4 mm either way from neutral didn't make a great deal of difference. I taped a 5p piece on the nose but then the model would not fly hand off, even with "up" trimmed in. I tried the other way with some solder wire round the boom and it just flew nose up and was really twitchy (like it was near the stall) and with loads of "Down" trimmed in it was unpredictable ..... I realised I was out of my area of knowledge ....... Just to make sure it wasn't the lift I re-launched my Akcent and it flew like a dream so obviously it's the model.
The servos have no lables that I can see but the seem to center ok, perhaps not as accurate as the top line ones but withing a mm. The linkages are "Almost" slop free.
It was while sitting in the bath that I had a uereaka moment and wondered if I put a different wing on it would be better .... in retrospect ...... I maybe I'm just being a tight arse and should just dry my eyes and buy another model that has a been proven.
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:52 AM
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I've just been told by a friend that the model design is about 10 years old so maybe I shouldn't expect too much!
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Old May 28, 2012, 10:09 AM
Jim C
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Marty, it could be as simple as the weight of your second plane. An extra oz under light conditions can make the difference between going up or coming down.

Mix and match can be huge fun.
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Old May 28, 2012, 02:11 PM
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I will have to weigh it when I get home. I'm at sea for another two weeks yet!
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