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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:57 AM
when is the wind stopping??
markkona's Avatar
Malta, Marsaskala
Joined Apr 2011
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I really think they should be called guides but as they are closed on the F45 they can also be called loops
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:28 AM
Eugene
Whizgig's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
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I know all FP heli's have them but they are open ones not looped.
So I would possibly say they might guide the dog bones slightly during flight due to the centriffical force, but I think what is happening is that they are actualy causing the problem as they must jam up the dog bones and in doing so the break as the DB are stronger than the hoops.
So IMO they need to have a wider gap to stop the problem, I think this is why they changed from 7's to strait dog bones to try and fix it but the hoops are the problem not the dog bones.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:50 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Ah, I see!
Whizgig, you were wondering why the guides were looped, not why they were there. My bad, and apologies, but personally think MJX designers just thought it would make the guides stronger. Could well be exactly the reverse, as you suspect: either way, imo the guides are just too bloody flimsy. My two cents

(But never had one fail with the paperclip!)
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:21 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Ah, I see!
Whizgig, you were wondering why the guides were looped, not why they were there. My bad, and apologies, but personally think MJX designers just thought it would make the guides stronger. Could well be exactly the reverse, as you suspect: either way, imo the guides are just too bloody flimsy. My two cents

(But never had one fail with the paperclip!)
Exactly if they are stronger it dosn't happen but I also think that the dogbones are to thick for the gap between the guides and the guides are the only week link in the intire heli.

Thats why when they changed the dog bones to straight ones it didn't fix the problem they needed to open up the gap in the guides and make them sronger.

So for the moment all we can do is to do your fix with the paperclip until they change the guides, I have now got in touch with the maufactura and I am awaiting a reply from him to possibly correct this problem with this and the other models they make.

I will keep you all informed with any info I get from them.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:01 AM
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Joined Sep 2012
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I have been flying with a broken loop for two weeks now... no problem what so ever!
It actually took me two days to find out that the loop was broken, and the only reason i checked was yet another crash.

I finally received the extra servo from banggood.com. I tried to use the 6th hole on the arm, but the arm connected to the swash would grind against the body.

So i'm using the 5th hole now and i'm experiencing better handling... but not that much. If i ever get stock in strong winds, i need to fly sideways to achieve better/stronger angles.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:59 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizgig View Post
Well it just seems strange as they don't realy do anything as in guide the 7's as they don't touch each other so how do they break, unless another force is added into the equation??

Be it either by crash or blade strikes or by flybar strikes, twisting the head beyond it's capabilities and useing 120% settings for the servo's.

Also if you do use 120% you are stressing the sevo's as this setting way to high, to setup the heli properly you need to move the sticks and watch and listen where the servo stops in relation to the stick and back off the throw so the sticks and the servo's are in sync with their movment, and not pushing the servo arms and the swash plate putting undue stress to the parts of the head and flybar ect.
The guides are to keep the top half of the swash in a certain position relative to the main shaft/rotor blade assembly so it is indexed properly in relation to the bottom half that is controlled by the servos. If you did not have the guides, as you speed up and slow down the motor, the swash plate could advance and retard more easily effecting the point where the pitch change happens that causes side or forward movement. If you speed up and slow down the motor, the links will touch the guides to help maintain this status.
The 7 shaped dog bones will go through the link straighter reducing the binding effect that breaks them. I have both links and the straight ones put undue pressure on the guides when the head is accelerating because they are at an angle where the 7 shaped ones are 90 degrees to the guides and do no seem to cause the binding.
It's much the same as the washout on a flybar cp Heli. That keeps the swash follower in the proper relation to the head. If the swash follower could advance and retard as rpm changed up and down, the effect point of the head thrust would change causing very irratic handeling similar to a flybarless Heli when you set the head gyro way too high and the Heli literally starts to vibrate and bounce around.
At least that's my deduction after studying the head/flybar/swash mechanics.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:02 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove View Post
Look what i have found:
http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-La...f-p-54568.html

Competition ?
If it flies anything like the V911, it will definately be a winner in the 400 FP Heli size.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:17 AM
Flying a Falcon or a RC Heli.
fauconnier's Avatar
Canada, QC, Rimouski
Joined Jul 2012
670 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
The guides are to keep the top half of the swash in a certain position relative to the main shaft/rotor blade assembly so it is indexed properly in relation to the bottom half that is controlled by the servos. If you did not have the guides, as you speed up and slow down the motor, the swash plate could advance and retard more easily effecting the point where the pitch change happens that causes side or forward movement. If you speed up and slow down the motor, the links will touch the guides to help maintain this status.
The 7 shaped dog bones will go through the link straighter reducing the binding effect that breaks them. I have both links and the straight ones put undue pressure on the guides when the head is accelerating because they are at an angle where the 7 shaped ones are 90 degrees to the guides and do no seem to cause the binding.
It's much the same as the washout on a flybar cp Heli. That keeps the swash follower in the proper relation to the head. If the swash follower could advance and retard as rpm changed up and down, the effect point of the head thrust would change causing very irratic handeling similar to a flybarless Heli when you set the head gyro way too high and the Heli literally starts to vibrate and bounce around.
At least that's my deduction after studying the head/flybar/swash mechanics.
Everything between the servo and the blades should be stiff, rigid, moving freely without any slack, guides included. The difference in flight precision is obvious. It is one of the difference between an expensive heli and a cheap one.

After 3 stock main motors on my F45, the plastic parts show some wear that is perceptible on the precision of the flight.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:21 AM
Flying a Falcon or a RC Heli.
fauconnier's Avatar
Canada, QC, Rimouski
Joined Jul 2012
670 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
If it flies anything like the V911, it will definately be a winner in the 400 FP Heli size.
With a 7.4 v. 850 mah this heli is just a little bigger then a 9116, about the size of a CB180. They probably include the main blade and the tail blade in their measurement.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:29 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
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How much extra weight can the EH200 motor take with ? how about 250-500 gram ?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:30 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
The guides are to keep the top half of the swash in a certain position relative to the main shaft/rotor blade assembly so it is indexed properly in relation to the bottom half that is controlled by the servos. If you did not have the guides, as you speed up and slow down the motor, the swash plate could advance and retard more easily effecting the point where the pitch change happens that causes side or forward movement. If you speed up and slow down the motor, the links will touch the guides to help maintain this status.
The 7 shaped dog bones will go through the link straighter reducing the binding effect that breaks them. I have both links and the straight ones put undue pressure on the guides when the head is accelerating because they are at an angle where the 7 shaped ones are 90 degrees to the guides and do no seem to cause the binding.
It's much the same as the washout on a flybar cp Heli. That keeps the swash follower in the proper relation to the head. If the swash follower could advance and retard as rpm changed up and down, the effect point of the head thrust would change causing very irratic handeling similar to a flybarless Heli when you set the head gyro way too high and the Heli literally starts to vibrate and bounce around.
At least that's my deduction after studying the head/flybar/swash mechanics.
Aha I was right. Thanks for your explination BThirsk it was very informative but I would still like to know what it flyes like without them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove
I have been flying with a broken loop for two weeks now... no problem what so ever!
It actually took me two days to find out that the loop was broken, and the only reason i checked was yet another crash.
If this is so then maybe they would be better without them on the heli
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:32 AM
Flying a Falcon or a RC Heli.
fauconnier's Avatar
Canada, QC, Rimouski
Joined Jul 2012
670 Posts
Speaking of the 9116...39$ at Toptoys, 9053 at 26$, S031G at 18$, S109G for 5$, that is really cheap especially if you combine shipping . Could be interesting for the family kids for Christmas.

http://www.toptoyexpress.com/remote-...licopters.html

I have no experience with this seller.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 09:38 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove View Post
I have been flying with a broken loop for two weeks now... no problem what so ever!
It actually took me two days to find out that the loop was broken, and the only reason i checked was yet another crash.

I finally received the extra servo from banggood.com. I tried to use the 6th hole on the arm, but the arm connected to the swash would grind against the body.

So i'm using the 5th hole now and i'm experiencing better handling... but not that much. If i ever get stock in strong winds, i need to fly sideways to achieve better/stronger angles.
If you still have on guide, it will keep the swash follow in the proper relation to the head. break the other one and there is nothing to keep that relationship. As you already have one broken, maybey you should break the other one and test it out.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:16 AM
Eternal beginner
Rollmops67's Avatar
France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizgig View Post
__________________________________________________ ______

Originally Posted by BThirsk
The guides are to keep the top half of the swash in a certain position relative to the main shaft/rotor blade assembly so it is indexed properly in relation to the bottom half that is controlled by the servos. If you did not have the guides, as you speed up and slow down the motor, the swash plate could advance and retard more easily effecting the point where the pitch change happens that causes side or forward movement. If you speed up and slow down the motor, the links will touch the guides to help maintain this status.
The 7 shaped dog bones will go through the link straighter reducing the binding effect that breaks them. I have both links and the straight ones put undue pressure on the guides when the head is accelerating because they are at an angle where the 7 shaped ones are 90 degrees to the guides and do no seem to cause the binding.
It's much the same as the washout on a flybar cp Heli. That keeps the swash follower in the proper relation to the head. If the swash follower could advance and retard as rpm changed up and down, the effect point of the head thrust would change causing very irratic handeling similar to a flybarless Heli when you set the head gyro way too high and the Heli literally starts to vibrate and bounce around.
At least that's my deduction after studying the head/flybar/swash mechanics.


Aha I was right. Thanks for your explination BThirsk it was very informative but I would still like to know what it flyes like without them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumilove
I have been flying with a broken loop for two weeks now... no problem what so ever!
It actually took me two days to find out that the loop was broken, and the only reason i checked was yet another crash.


If this is so then maybe they would be better without them on the heli
I agree 100% with BThirsk's explanation.

I already had the loops breaking during flight once (maybe one was already broken from a crash when the heli left off), the heli becomes barely controlable, it's like elevator and aileron mixing with each other, I could come down safely, but only because it was not windy.

But since I use Oldoz's solution with the paperclip, I never broke the loops again !

Roland
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:30 AM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,346 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Done!
(With paperclip mod)

- Actually dogbone guides. Similar to antirotation guide on CP head.
Oh, those, I was thinking of something else. Their purpose is to retain the relative position of the flybar in relationship to the rotor head, so the linkage works best. These guides usually break when something causes the dog bone to shift. If the opening in the loop starts to show stress, enlarges or allows the dogbone to bind, it's an indication of excess wear or damage in the drive train (shaft, gears, linkage, head, etc.).
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