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Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
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Nice circle, Mick.I wonder if you're using max throtle ? what happened at the end? too much grass....
AC
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 09:11 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
I would look at your pitch/throttle curves. I dont see how adding pitch is going to reduce torque on your gear pin but rather the reverse. I had trouble with my 5 Blade 450 breaking main gears. In order to stop this I needed a nice soft ramp up, and zero pitch until 50% throttle.

Personally I didnt like the white TREX plastic blades as my flight seamed a little slippery, even in a hover. I ended up putting the yellow TREX250 plastics back on. Heres a recent flight video of my 4F200 using the yellow plastics with a paint job.

I think I need a differant colour canopy for this heli as well as the dark colours tend to make the heli disapear in the treeline. Im considering a yellow V200 canopy or similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfhA-XPEaCM
Nice. What does happen at the end? Seems like the noise happens before it hits the ground. Maybe that's just my iphone's interpretation of it.

Rafa
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 09:34 PM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Nice circle, Mick.I wonder if you're using max throtle ? what happened at the end? too much grass....
AC
LOL I dont know. I think it was two much grass that caused the roll over. It may have been mech or pilot error as well. The throttle was not maxed out, but those blades were certainly singing on a few of the circuits. I havnt inspected it yet as my wife has made me pack up the heli hobby shop in our dining room so she can make the house look like Christmas rather than the Sikorsky hanger. Ive even had to move at least eight helicopters from the living room wall units out into my garage with the python. That only leaves me 10 left inside the house, "oh the humanity". I asked Santa for a GAUI 550 so that should ease the pain in few days

Merry Christmas to all, and many thanks to those that have inputed these forums throughout the year.

Mick

ps- Ive got a Gyrocopter inbound as well, but thats our little secret, dont tell my Mrs
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Nice. What does happen at the end? Seems like the noise happens before it hits the ground. Maybe that's just my iphone's interpretation of it.

Rafa
Im only using cheap DV glasses for my video work, so the sound can be out of sync at times. You got to love the 4F200 once you get past all the screws falling out. Other than that ive found it quite good heli.

Mick
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:16 PM
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Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Hi Guys,

I wanted to update a bit. After 134 flights, and having to adjust my throttle curves up over the past while, I swapped the motor over from my other 4F200, and what a difference it made! With the curves as they were, it was really a zinger.

I don't really know that much about brushless motors, but I was thinking that I might be able to feel the difference between the 2 motors, I mean with the motors in my hands. I was thinking that the worn motor's magnets would not be as strong or something, but I really couldn't tell the difference. I also did not see the play that ri0grand described with his first motor. The only observable difference was in the flight characteristics, especially after 3 or so flights in a row (lack of 'punch').

I filmed some of this morning's flights (with the fresh motor), so here it is. I haven't filmed in a while. I'd like to have a cameraman now:
Rafa's Walkera 4F200 12.26.10 (1 min 38 sec)


Maybe someone can offer some flying advice. I've been flying lately in this parking lot that you see, usually further from the power lines. It's not as big a space as Mick's recent video. I can hover pretty well in everything but nose-in, but I can fly toward myself and hover nose-in for a few seconds before getting nervous and bringing her around. Lately I've been taking the heli over to the left of me, then passing it in front of myself, over to the right, then turning it around and coming back in front of myself again. Those are 'circuits', right?

I've got this step down fairly well, however I'm stuck at one point. When it's to the left of me, I turn it cw to bring it back around, and when it's off to the right, I turn it ccw. I'm having trouble going the other way. In other words, bringing it around thru nose-in. This also keeps me from doing cool, big circles, like Mick. Like Mick mentions during his video, I have a hard time seeing the thing well enough when it's far away. For example, if it's right side-in, let's say, and it's far off, and I see the skids come out of plane, I have a hard time telling if it's coming towards me or going away from me. Someone in one of the CB100 threads was talking about some printable canopies that once could print out yourself--maybe that would help see it a bit.


Thanks in advance for any advice, sorry it's not exactly 4F200 specific,

Rafa
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 02:32 PM
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Australia
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Hi Rafa

I dont know if your into buying another cheap heli, as I used a combination of FP heli's and simulator time to build my confidence flying circuits. I also fly at least two packs on my FP birds before I start flying my CP heli's as a bit of a hand/eye warm up. I still cant fly ACW circuits even on the simutaor with confidence though, but im comfortable with the CW circuit.

As for budeget outdoor FP trainers that you can fly with your 2801tx I like both the Uflys and the V200D02(with CP3 tail). I find the V200 the most robust FP trainer although like all heli's it has its quirks.

Ive also put quite a bit of time into learning to control the speed of the circuit. I found this very helpfull if you can learn to limit the speed of your heli through a circuit. Learning to fly controlled slower smaller circles, that gradually expand in size I found helpfull as well.

Regards the canopy I think I'll change mine to the Yellow V200D01 canopy which should fit, and if I recall correctly I think Xheli guy had a Madhawk yellow canopy fitted.

Mick
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 02:45 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Hi Rafa

I dont know if your into buying another cheap heli, as I used a combination of FP heli's and simulator time to build my confidence flying circuits. I also fly at least two packs on my FP birds before I start flying my CP heli's as a bit of a hand/eye warm up. I still cant fly ACW circuits even on the simutaor with confidence though, but im comfortable with the CW circuit.

As for budeget outdoor FP trainers that you can fly with your 2801tx I like both the Uflys and the V200D02(with CP3 tail). I find the V200 the most robust FP trainer although like all heli's it has its quirks.

Ive also put quite a bit of time into learning to control the speed of the circuit. I found this very helpfull if you can learn to limit the speed of your heli through a circuit. Learning to fly controlled slower smaller circles, that gradually expand in size I found helpfull as well.

Regards the canopy I think I'll change mine to the Yellow V200D01 canopy which should fit, and if I recall correctly I think Xheli guy had a Madhawk yellow canopy fitted.

Mick
Thanks Mick, great advice. I've been neglecting my CB100s, especially the one with a Techhead installed. I need to try these things with it, as it flies pretty well outdoors, given not much wind.

When I first got going with the 4F200, I did as you mention, and always warmed up with the Techhead first. I fly before work these days, and I only have 20 minutes of daylight before I have to get to work. That will change soon, thankfully. Take care,

Rafa
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 02:50 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I wanted to update a bit. After 134 flights, and having to adjust my throttle curves up over the past while, I swapped the motor over from my other 4F200, and what a difference it made! With the curves as they were, it was really a zinger.

I don't really know that much about brushless motors, but I was thinking that I might be able to feel the difference between the 2 motors, I mean with the motors in my hands. I was thinking that the worn motor's magnets would not be as strong or something, but I really couldn't tell the difference. I also did not see the play that ri0grand described with his first motor. The only observable difference was in the flight characteristics, especially after 3 or so flights in a row (lack of 'punch').

I filmed some of this morning's flights (with the fresh motor), so here it is. I haven't filmed in a while. I'd like to have a cameraman now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUnGYn5ZxHM

Maybe someone can offer some flying advice. I've been flying lately in this parking lot that you see, usually further from the power lines. It's not as big a space as Mick's recent video. I can hover pretty well in everything but nose-in, but I can fly toward myself and hover nose-in for a few seconds before getting nervous and bringing her around. Lately I've been taking the heli over to the left of me, then passing it in front of myself, over to the right, then turning it around and coming back in front of myself again. Those are 'circuits', right?

I've got this step down fairly well, however I'm stuck at one point. When it's to the left of me, I turn it cw to bring it back around, and when it's off to the right, I turn it ccw. I'm having trouble going the other way. In other words, bringing it around thru nose-in. This also keeps me from doing cool, big circles, like Mick. Like Mick mentions during his video, I have a hard time seeing the thing well enough when it's far away. For example, if it's right side-in, let's say, and it's far off, and I see the skids come out of plane, I have a hard time telling if it's coming towards me or going away from me. Someone in one of the CB100 threads was talking about some printable canopies that once could print out yourself--maybe that would help see it a bit.


Thanks in advance for any advice, sorry it's not exactly 4F200 specific,

Rafa
Maybe the bearing could have been going in the old motor. They are easy to get to.

I find turning CW to right of me and CCW to the left of me harder also. I want more room doing a turn in towards me is most of it. I have been practicing a slow CCW piro to the left of me and CCW to the right to get used to initiating and controlling in a limited space.

A more experienced flyer passed this suggestion on to me: Practice flying straight out and stop, pivot 180, and then fly nose-in towards yourself and then stop, pivot 180. Then repeat the sequence at various angles with yourself as one end of the vector. You can probably already do 0 (straight out) , -90 (straight left), +90 (straight right). try to do them in 15 degree increments to get comfortable with nose in from all directions. Work on maintaining a straight line. When you get good at this, fly the same exercise flying backwards. You can then try the same thing right-side in and left-side in. If you get bored with this do it inverted.....

It may sound boring, but I think it goes a long to "mastering" all orientations. A lot of people will say they have their orientations down, but a lot of them just avoid the angles they aren't good at.

Just wanted to pass on to you what was passed on to me from way better flyers than me.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 03:46 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Hi Rio

Got the new Rx2702V fitted and see what you mean with the tail set up. However I have got my tail solid. First of ignore all the usual gyro setting rules with this one, I think the key is matching the Rx gyro with a servo that it likes and the ball position on the arm. I'm not saying this will work for you but I'm using a JR 380G with approx 5-6mm ball length on the arm. Servo needs to be around 90deg with zero tail pitch then set travel etc.
I too really like this Rx from the little bit of flying that I've managed to do this is one solid FBL system, I'm almost thinking of trying one on my B400 instead of a BeastX! Almost!
Walkera done good for once-at least they've screwed up the 120d05 to even things out.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 04:27 PM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Nice circle, Mick.I wonder if you're using max throtle ? what happened at the end? too much grass....
AC
Ok Ive just completed the crash scene investigation.

Failure = Elevator servo(electrical fault)
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 04:33 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Hi Rio

Got the new Rx2702V fitted and see what you mean with the tail set up. However I have got my tail solid. First of ignore all the usual gyro setting rules with this one, I think the key is matching the Rx gyro with a servo that it likes and the ball position on the arm. I'm not saying this will work for you but I'm using a JR 380G with approx 5-6mm ball length on the arm. Servo needs to be around 90deg with zero tail pitch then set travel etc.
I too really like this Rx from the little bit of flying that I've managed to do this is one solid FBL system, I'm almost thinking of trying one on my B400 instead of a BeastX! Almost!
Walkera done good for once-at least they've screwed up the 120d05 to even things out.

I am glad you got yours sorted. I think I heard the JR380g is the JR290g here in the US.

I later found that I needed the initial swash mixing values to be set at at least 85% on the initial setup to make sure I had full PIT/AIL/ELE travels ( PIT<|-45|>+ ELE<20> +AIL<20> = 85. Check out this thread if you haven't already:http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356899

I have found it is pretty sensitive to vibrations. I used a thicker foam bottom pad and a thin foam and metal plate from an Align gyro mounting kit. I tried the clear silcone gel tape (Parma), but it gave me tail wagging.

My ball to servo center distance for the tail servo is 3.5 mm. My gain is at 70% and my delay is about 11 O'clock. This is with the Ino-Labs D201HB Servo
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:03 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
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I've got this step down fairly well, however I'm stuck at one point. When it's to the left of me, I turn it cw to bring it back around, and when it's off to the right, I turn it ccw. I'm having trouble going the other way. In other words, bringing it around thru nose-in. This also keeps me from doing cool, big circles, like Mick. Like Mick mentions during his video, I have a hard time seeing the thing well enough when it's far away. For example, if it's right side-in, let's say, and it's far off, and I see the skids come out of plane, I have a hard time telling if it's coming towards me or going away from me. Someone in one of the CB100 threads was talking about some printable canopies that once could print out yourself--maybe that would help see it a bit.


Thanks in advance for any advice, sorry it's not exactly 4F200 specific,

Rafa[/QUOTE]

You could try lights.... I fly at night in my drive way lights and find these do help if wander too far.

The blue light on the bottom is from my battery voltage monitor http://www.helidirect.com/maxpro-bat...ies-p-8158.hdx $5.95 money well spent I think.

The other lights are from here: http://www.wowhobbies.com/ledcanopyw...01v200d02.aspx.

I transferred the setup to the 4F200 canopy. I am only using 3 lights per side for the sequential (I broke one). I actually usually just use the on steady red/green LED on each side.....looks less like a Tijuana taxi.

Sorry for the poor phone video quality, but you get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yvCQCIm67Q
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:36 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Here is a better demo of the LED lights on my 4F200. It's just some hovering in the driveway (didn't want to move the cars). It shows both sequential triple LED mode and the static single LED mode later in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63UnEF4qjOg
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 09:10 AM
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United States, FL, Hollywood
Joined Aug 2010
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Beefed up ESKY Big Lama with 4F200 internals

Rafa, I too warm up on my fixed pitch 120 SR before flying the 4F200, but I also have a flight sim called Clear view which I think has helped with my nose ins. I'm still not perfect at it yet though. In the beginning of this video I do a brief nose in:
4F200 Walkera in Big Lama body (4 min 20 sec)


My 4F200 has no mods except I took the canopy off and replaced it with an ESKY Big Lama fuselage. The fuse is so light I made no trim adjustments and though this is only my second time really flying the 4F200 I could not really tell a lot of difference after the fuselage was installed.
It is easier to see the heli at far distances as the body is 19.5 inches long.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 10:38 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Here is a better demo of the LED lights on my 4F200. It's just some hovering in the driveway (didn't want to move the cars). It shows both sequential triple LED mode and the static single LED mode later in the video.
Very nice. That will get me some more flight minutes at the beginning and end of the day. I also like the flashing battery minder. I like that it does something before 3.3V/cell.

Nice drill yesterday. Harder than it seems. I forgot that I used to call you 'Radd II'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
Rafa, I too warm up on my fixed pitch 120 SR before flying the 4F200, but I also have a flight sim called Clear view which I think has helped with my nose ins. I'm still not perfect at it yet though. In the beginning of this video I do a brief nose in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc05U...layer_embedded

My 4F200 has no mods except I took the canopy off and replaced it with an ESKY Big Lama fuselage. The fuse is so light I made no trim adjustments and though this is only my second time really flying the 4F200 I could not really tell a lot of difference after the fuselage was installed.
It is easier to see the heli at far distances as the body is 19.5 inches long.
LOL. I love it when the rcg and utube world collide. You video responded to one of my videos a few days ago. Nice fuselage, I can see where it would be easier to see.

Thanks, Rafa

p.s. In other news, I was able to do a CCW circle this morning with the 4F200. I was able to do a dozen or so with the TechHead CB100 yesterday, but not a bunch in a row.

Yesterday afternoon, I had something happen that has never happened for me before. I had a really light blade strike which resulted in no apparent damage. I was practicing this whole nose-in thing, and I got confused, and was almost, almost able to land it. . . .then it tipped over. I guess it was really more of a tip than a strike. I picked it up, looked it over, all looked good, so I set it back down, finished the pack, then flew another.

I did almost the exact same thing this morning, in just about the same spot even, and was able to fly another 2 minutes or so that remained on that pack. I was shocked that I've had 2 little strikes with no apparent damage (almost 40 packs without a blade strike up to that point, however.), but as I connected the next battery, one of the servos started buzzing. Guess it's time for my new Futaba servos, but I'm impressed/amazed that I was able to get a few minutes of good flight out of it after the strike, but before that next battery.
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