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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by micronut View Post
Well...yes, actually. If I were to go back in time and try to teach them, I believe that they would be able to comprehend it. Could they imagine them on their own? Yes, but very,very unlikely. The human imagination is pretty powerful.

I believe that there are things in this universe that we will never comprehend due to the very nature of our shrouded existence. According to dark matter theories, we can only perceive a small portion of the universe.

Just thinking out loud...I love new ideas.
New ideas is what pushes people forward. Imagination, thinking, calculating, observation, experimenting, exploring, learning, trying harder....

I do agree that they could have comprehended.... but I guess I was trying to make the point that they didn't. And placing us, as of today, in the same position they was in, with us looking at what will be discovered tomorrow.
I don't think we can comprehend today, what we will know in the future. Or even to what extent our knowledge will have expanded to.

I.E. take a look at Galileo Galilei.... Fairy tales?

I suppose for the thread topic, I find agnostics more truthful than 99% of Atheist. And I suppose that is because I get the impression that many Atheist spend more time hating the Idea (concept) that there could be a God, or higher form of intelligence. Christians, or rather believers to be more accurate live on faith and their belief in God. Yes I will say that there are bad apples in each group, yet you will find a higher number of hateful people in the group of Atheist. Just simply looking at LTUP.... the amount of ridicule going back and forth is mostly owned by the Atheist crowd.
An example of this behavior would be the fact that the fairy tale insult is mostly thrown one way. Neither side can prove their side 100% factual. So which one is the fairy tale?
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:28 AM
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Devout believer - not thinking

Athiest - not thinking

Agnostic - thinking
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Devout believer - not thinking

Athiest - not thinking

Agnostic - thinking
Get off the fence.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:45 AM
dont play with rc anymore
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I don't think we can comprehend today, what we will know in the future. Or even to what extent our knowledge will have expanded to.
I hope not. That's what makes it so exciting!

I also hope that we never find all of the answers. It's the question and mystery that intrigues and drives us forward. Without the question, we have no purpose.

If we ever do find all of the answers, it will be a very sad day.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:48 AM
dont play with rc anymore
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Originally Posted by mortato View Post
Get off the fence.
Not on a fence...on a mountain.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
New ideas is what pushes people forward. Imagination, thinking, calculating, observation, experimenting, exploring, learning, trying harder....

I do agree that they could have comprehended.... but I guess I was trying to make the point that they didn't. And placing us, as of today, in the same position they was in, with us looking at what will be discovered tomorrow.
I don't think we can comprehend today, what we will know in the future. Or even to what extent our knowledge will have expanded to.

I.E. take a look at Galileo Galilei.... Fairy tales?

I suppose for the thread topic, I find agnostics more truthful than 99% of Atheist. And I suppose that is because I get the impression that many Atheist spend more time hating the Idea (concept) that there could be a God, or higher form of intelligence. Christians, or rather believers to be more accurate live on faith and their belief in God. Yes I will say that there are bad apples in each group, yet you will find a higher number of hateful people in the group of Atheist. Just simply looking at LTUP.... the amount of ridicule going back and forth is mostly owned by the Atheist crowd.
An example of this behavior would be the fact that the fairy tale insult is mostly thrown one way. Neither side can prove their side 100% factual. So which one is the fairy tale?
The fairy tale is the one that includes fairies or similar creatures.
I'll also bet that here in LTUP you don't find agnostics more truthful than 99% of atheists. I'll bet anyone that goes back through the religious topics will find that you disagree with what is the truth with ET a lot more than 1% of the disagreements with atheists. And he isn't the only agnostic.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mortato View Post
The fairy tale is the one that includes fairies or similar creatures.
I'll also bet that here in LTUP you don't find agnostics more truthful than 99% of atheists. I'll bet anyone that goes back through the religious topics will find that you disagree with what is the truth with ET a lot more than 1% of the disagreements with atheists. And he isn't the only agnostic.
The majority of ET's post is just Trolling.

blame bush

blame bush

blame bush

blame bush

So no need to openly call him for what he is.... I think most people here already see him for what he is. YMMV
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:11 AM
All under control, Grommit!
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Originally Posted by Real Ira View Post
No shockers in this study.

http://www.livescience.com/health/th...line%20Feed%29

To a believer (or at least a Christian one) thoughts of God represent blessed assurance of eternal love, mercy and grace. To an atheist the prospect that there may in fact be a God, and in particular a God of the Bible would mean they were in deep poo, poo.... Unless of they turn to God of course.
I can't speak for anyone else, and am not actually an atheist, but that woul seem to be just another example of believers projecting notions onto non-believers that are pure nonsense. We've seen it on here many times, where believers will accuse non-believers of "hating God". It's a ludicrous notion to ascribe hate for something that the target of that comment does not have any belief in.

As for stress, the frequent exhibition of believers hoping for, indeed celebrating, harsh judgement and eternal fire for non-believers, that they view as opponents in the discussions here, demonstrate beyond any doubt who is actually stressed. The discredited and debunked "big stick" of Pascal's Wager is wielded with monotonous regularity and, of course is laughed off as a hollow threat.

Seriously, we're talking here of otherwise cogent adults who, in the 21st century, literally believe in demons, spirits and the like, roaming the earth. These beliefs are largely indistinguishable from belief in fairies, elves and leprechauns. No wonder they're stressed out.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:17 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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IMHO the whole notion of 'god' (any god) was originally constructed to give people the reassurance of having answers to the age old questions like 'where do i come from?'.. 'what happens when I die?'.. etc etc. The Christian notion of god along with that of most if not all other religions provides the believer with very simple, comfortable, reassuring and therefore highly appealing answers to these difficult and often complex questions.

So I might agree with you that in some ways believers are more comforted about certain aspects of life and death.. If they truly believe in heaven then if must make dealing with loss of friends and family a lot easier for instance.

It was H. L. Mencken who said "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." If you are comfortable in your beliefs than that's fine, good for you, but it don’t make it true.

Steve
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:23 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Devout believer - not thinking

Athiest - not thinking

Agnostic - thinking
A slight ammendment:

Devout believer - not thinking.

Athiest - Thought about it a great deal, weighed up the evidence and came to logical conclusion.

Agnostic - thinking.

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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mortato View Post
Get off the fence.
I am (think about it)

I'm agnostic - (firmly so...)
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
IMHO the whole notion of 'god' (any god) was originally constructed to give people the reassurance of having answers to the age old questions like 'where do i come from?'.. 'what happens when I die?'.. etc etc. The Christian notion of god along with that of most if not all other religions provides the believer with very simple, comfortable, reassuring and therefore highly appealing answers to these difficult and often complex questions.

So I might agree with you that in some ways believers are more comforted about certain aspects of life and death.. If they truly believe in heaven then if must make dealing with loss of friends and family a lot easier for instance.

It was H. L. Mencken who said "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." If you are comfortable in your beliefs than that's fine, good for you, but it don’t make it true.

Steve
+1 Well stated.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
A slight ammendment:

Devout believer - not thinking.

Athiest - Thought about it a great deal, weighed up the evidence and came to logical conclusion.

Agnostic - thinking.

Ah but is it logical to say you KNOW there's nothing - given the size of the known Universe (which actually isn't known)
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
The majority of ET's post is just Trolling.

blame bush

blame bush

blame bush

blame bush

So no need to openly call him for what he is.... I think most people here already see him for what he is. YMMV
You're just sore because every intelligent sentient being on the planet called your baby ugly
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 04:27 AM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
IMHO the whole notion of 'god' (any god) was originally constructed to give people the reassurance of having answers to the age old questions like 'where do i come from?'.. 'what happens when I die?'.. etc etc. The Christian notion of god along with that of most if not all other religions provides the believer with very simple, comfortable, reassuring and therefore highly appealing answers to these difficult and often complex questions.

So I might agree with you that in some ways believers are more comforted about certain aspects of life and death.. If they truly believe in heaven then if must make dealing with loss of friends and family a lot easier for instance.

It was H. L. Mencken who said "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." If you are comfortable in your beliefs than that's fine, good for you, but it don’t make it true.

Steve
Good post Steve, especially the point about those simple, but wrong, answers.
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