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Old Jun 13, 2012, 11:56 PM
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United States, OR, Sherwood
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keychain camera source?

TurboParker, That hat cam works pretty good, esp on 720. Could you tell me more specifics on where you got it, cost and what model it is.
Tx JJ
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:40 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Just a short hatcam clip of the B3D on 3s in the yard. Had to try out my new #16 keychain cam. Be sure to watch in 720p!
...
Joel
Very nice! That #16 does look better than my #11.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:41 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by JJ460 View Post
TurboParker, That hat cam works pretty good, esp on 720. Could you tell me more specifics on where you got it, cost and what model it is.
Tx JJ
And the even cooler thing is it's light enough for the Beast to carry!
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 06:27 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by JJ460 View Post
TurboParker, That hat cam works pretty good, esp on 720. Could you tell me more specifics on where you got it, cost and what model it is.
Tx JJ
JJ,

It's an 808 #16. It goes for just under 40 bucks without a card. See my post in the other Beast thread for links: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2348

Joel
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 12:45 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
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Dogfight: 2300kv vs 3000kv motor

Finally the moment a few of you have been waiting for!! Back to back tests of my B3D on a 2300kv/5043 and a 3000kv/5030.

Flight conditions:
METAR KTVC 141655Z 14007KT 10SM FEW080 OVC250
Don't speak metar? Winds were from the south south-east at 7kts(8mph).

Noise:
I literally laughed the first time I advanced the throttle on the 2300. Quiet doesn't even come close to describing it.
The 3000kv sounds like someone held their head up to an angry hornets nest. At least you cant hear the servos working.

Performance:
The 2300kv/5043 is faster in a straight line. However the 3000kv/5030 is close in top speed. What I really noticed though is the 2300 can't hold speed in tight higher G turns, and definitely is slower in vertical. Speaking of vertical, The 2300/5043 is MUCH harder to hover. There is a lot more torque and it required basically full aileron(second to outermost hole on horn) to hover. Even then It still wants to turn with every throttle adjustment. *note that this plane is hard to hover anyways unless to move the CG WAY aft, the 3000kv and 5030 are noticeably easier to hover though.

*edit*
Battery usage:
both flights were on a 2S MiniAviation210:
3000kv - 5030: flight time was 5:03. Battery took 156mAh
2300kv - 5043: Flight time was 5:04. Battery took 154mAh
So basically identical battery usage with both setups. Note that I was flying it pretty hard for 3/5 of the flight. I'd bet that if I was just lazily flying around with gentle turns or surfing the wind I'd bet the 2300 would have slightly less draw as it should unload better in the air.
note#2 I know I didn't use the BB240 gold standard for the testing. I dont have 2 of them right now and I wanted to do back to back testing. I've also confirmed that the BB240 and the MA210 give similar performance and always take the same mAh back at charge time when flying the same durations.
*/edit*

My flight test was structured like this:
First min was about 2/3 throttle scale pattern aerobatics, large round loops, slow rolls, 50% hammerhead turns and 50% 45* bank turns at the ends of the box.
Second minute: Low flying. Heavy throttle activity, rolls and KE 8ft off the deck, slow flight, tree pylon flying dodging.
Third minute: 3D, well as much as I can do. Lots of vertical climbs, Blenders, spins, failed KE spins, and some ugly rolling harriers
Fourth minute: Hovering, Yeah I know this is the wrong end of the flight to really hover but I wanted to test how well it would do in the tail end of a battery discharge. see above for results.
Fifth minute: My favorite touch and gos. I think I got 4 in on each flight. nothing really to report here except that I could no longer judge the speed by motor sound on the 2300. I had a slightly harder time with the 2300 probably because of the quietness I tended to be a little fast. nothing that couldn't easily be fixed if I stuck with that setup!

Conclusion (delusions maybe?)
I'm sticking with the 3000kv setup. I subjectively felt that there was more "power" there. Especially seeing as I fly in a relatively confined area. It accelerates faster and holds speed in tight turns and vertical better.
I did a blender in both flights, with the 2300 I ended up at full throttle/rudder/aileron/elevator I was in a slow descending inverted flat spin. I let it continue 4 rotations as it wasn't sinking to fast, it didn't change, it would have continued until terra firma if I let it.with the 3000kv in the same conditions after 2-3 rotations the plane stops descending the nose comes up slightly and it completely stops descending. After a couple rotations of that I can apply opposite rudder and relax the aileron and it will flip into a hover and pull out vertically like a good blender should.

You notice battery usage isn't here: I'm single charging the packs at 1C to get the most accurate data possible. when they are both charged I'll post it here. The 3000kv flight was 5:03 and the 2300kv flight was 5:04 so I'd say they were pretty close, neither to LVC as I like my batteries

-Brian
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
Finally the moment a few of you have been waiting for!! Back to back tests of my B3D on a 2300kv/5043 and a 3000kv/5030.
...
Thanks! Great report.
This was 2S? Now you have to specify...
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:43 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Thanks! Great report.
This was 2S? Now you have to specify...
all on 2S

I did test 3S as well, on 3S my OCP/OTP kicked in basically making it unflyable. I guess I just drew the short straw and got a weak brick. It might have been temp related but on the 2300 and 5043 prop I have TONS of cooling as I had no spinner OR back-plate. I used an extra washer spacer from the sbach to get the prop out from the cowl. And I had already cut a bigger gap under the motor as well! On 3S I took off only got 8 ft in the air and it cutout. I dead-sticked it into the grass gently with no damage. With a hand launch it was flyable but only <50% throttle which game me LESS sustained power than 2S. It was hot and relatively humid today so that might have played a role. I didn't retest the 3000kv on 3S as I've done it before.

Battery usage:
both flights were on a 2S MiniAviation210:
3000kv - 5030: flight time was 5:03. Battery took 156mAh
2300kv - 5043: Flight time was 5:04. Battery took 154mAh
So basically identical battery usage with both setups. Note that I was flying it pretty hard for 3/5 of the flight. I'd bet that if I was just lazily flying around with gentle turns or surfing the wind I'd bet the 2300 would have slightly less draw as it should unload better in the air.
note#2 I know I didn't use the BB240 gold standard for the testing. I dont have 2 of them right now and I wanted to do back to back testing. I've also confirmed that the BB240 and the MA210 give similar performance and always take the same mAh back at charge time when flying the same durations.

I've also edited the original post to reflect this as well.

-Brian
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Brian,

Excellent, well-detailed report! Thanks!

Interesting results, too! Wasn't expecting the the two setups to be so close in current draw. The difference in hovering makes perfect sense. I remember noticing some of that back when we were still flying indoors. I was running the 5030 on my indoor B3D & the 5043 on my outdoor B3D. The 5030's lower torque was definitely easier to manage in a hover. I find your comments about the inverted flat-spins to be very interesting. I wonder why there would be that much difference between the two props. Even more - I want to know how you got yours to flat-spin! Best I can get out of mine with the elevator throw maxed & an aft CG is sort of a tight, inverted flat-turn. The plane doesn't appear to be truly autorotating.

There appears to be considerable variability in OCP/OTP sensitivity between B3D bricks when running on 3s. The Gee Bee OCP issue makes a lot more sense, now! I should try 3s on my indoor B3D & see how it fares. The one I'm flying now only cuts out during static tests on 3s.

I can't help but wonder how the plane would perform with the 2300Kv/Eflite 5.5x2 combo on 3s . I don't recall anyone trying that setup.

Joel
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
...
There appears to be considerable variability in OCP/OTP sensitivity between B3D bricks when running on 3s.
...
Joel
Joel. I think I've discovered that it's temp related. It's close to 90 here and my trusty brick that never OCP's or OTP's wouldn't even run 10 seconds. My perfect v1 Beast with AS3X guts has a little rash to prove it. It was quite unexpected.

So I got to modding for temp control. Maybe I over-did it, but I sure love 3S and I sure didn't want the power failing again. Where I fly and the way the Beast (doesn't) glide it could mean a loss of one of my favorite planes.

So you and I should be ashamed of ourselves! What is one of the things you must provide for when getting 600+ hp out of a car? AIR! Air for lots of things, but cooling is an absolute necessity.

So when ground testing this setup, 2 minutes at 1/2 throttle did fine but melted the motor-mount. That was dumb! No harm to the motor, though... not even a funny "burny" smell. I took the paper label off to assist cooling as well as cutting away the black surround to open up airflow around the motor.

The results are successful! Now I get to "Sharpie" it black and put servo covers on. Then it'll be done!
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 07:53 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Brian,

Excellent, well-detailed report! Thanks!

Interesting results, too! Wasn't expecting the the two setups to be so close in current draw. The difference in hovering makes perfect sense. I remember noticing some of that back when we were still flying indoors. I was running the 5030 on my indoor B3D & the 5043 on my outdoor B3D. The 5030's lower torque was definitely easier to manage in a hover. I find your comments about the inverted flat-spins to be very interesting. I wonder why there would be that much difference between the two props. Even more - I want to know how you got yours to flat-spin! Best I can get out of mine with the elevator throw maxed & an aft CG is sort of a tight, inverted flat-turn. The plane doesn't appear to be truly autorotating.

There appears to be considerable variability in OCP/OTP sensitivity between B3D bricks when running on 3s. The Gee Bee OCP issue makes a lot more sense, now! I should try 3s on my indoor B3D & see how it fares. The one I'm flying now only cuts out during static tests on 3s.

I can't help but wonder how the plane would perform with the 2300Kv/Eflite 5.5x2 combo on 3s . I don't recall anyone trying that setup.

Joel
I had high hopes of testing my 5530 on the 2300kv on 3S but with the cutouts I'm guessing that might not happen. I'll keep working on a good way to add air without ruining the aesthetic. One thing I'm planning on doing it using a drinking straw to cut through the foam under the motor. This should create a decent sized hole pointed at the esc/brick and be almost invisible once the prop is on.

As to the inverted spin it has to have power to look right, I'd guess something around 1/2 to 2/3 (I don't dare look down at the TX when doing this!). To little and it just spins at about a 45* down angle, to much and you get the inverted circle rudder turn. Out of curiosity which direction are you spinning it? I always use full neg elevator and full right rudder. The Blender I do starting from a vertical climb, usually a hammerhead 0 throttle, aileron full left for 2-3 vertical dive rolls then Aileron moving CW from full left 0 elevator - to top left and then over to almost full right/full neg elevator as the power and rudder is added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Joel. I think I've discovered that it's temp related. It's close to 90 here and my trusty brick that never OCP's or OTP's wouldn't even run 10 seconds. My perfect v1 Beast with AS3X guts has a little rash to prove it. It was quite unexpected.

So I got to modding for temp control. Maybe I over-did it, but I sure love 3S and I sure didn't want the power failing again. Where I fly and the way the Beast (doesn't) glide it could mean a loss of one of my favorite planes.
You ain't kidding about the lack of glide, 1:1 would be generous!! That and the Beast doesn't like to flare on a dead-stick unless it is really fast.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it is temp relates are well. My 3000kv setup is pretty solid on 3S at anything under 75*F. It will cut out after extended vertical or power on spins where there is not good airflow. While I think that huge scoop will work it is quite large. I wonder if the scale cowl"scoop" could be sliced off and a functional one added in its place?

-Brian
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 08:38 PM
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While I think that huge scoop will work it is quite large. I wonder if the scale cowl"scoop" could be sliced off and a functional one added in its place?

-Brian
Har. Yes, it was an "overkill" experiment to see if that fixed the issue. It definitely did! Now I have to scale it back. I need full up elevator trim now. Little surprise there!
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 01:44 AM
Team30 Micro EDF
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Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
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I took an AS3X Beast up for a spin this morning thanks to JIm350 letting me fly his.

The funniest part was me landing into what was a decent little wind blowing. It practically floated down at a standstill and plonked down at my feet. Got a good laugh from Jim and I.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 01:49 AM
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South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
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After the elevator locked up this morning I thought Jim was very brave putting it up for a flight. Very strange. I thought removing the bur on the gear would stop this. Seems there are other issues here
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Yes i am confused by whats going on.
Ozzie it's your turn to take it up for a flight next :-)
P.S. thanks for the flight of the 109 today, it's as nice to fly as my trojan
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 02:45 AM
Team30 Micro EDF
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If it were me Jim, I would remove the gear and sand down the teeth by ~0.1mm to get a more free feeling meshing of the pinion.
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