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Old Mar 12, 2014, 09:39 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
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Midairs, yes they do happen but it is rare on landing and rare in the initial 1/3rd of the launch phase, both locations I would have expected them but amazingly they have mostly been up high not under power.
Do make sure you are flying your model and not someone else's. Many of the Mylar covering models look the same so an added stripe helps a lot.
When launching 11 models each separated by 12meters the first two models to your left and right are of a concern but the rest of the field are so far away they do not exist. We used a no turning for five second rule after launch and it works well.
The mass of the models and construction are what determine the damage. These are not 10ounce DLG's.

Curtis
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 09:43 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
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Oh, you asked a lot of questions over many topics and I missed that the ALES rules allow for up to three models. So you could have a light, med and high wind/lift model, or the ability to ballast the one model you have. I like to have two models at least in case a servo strips a gear etc....

Curt
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 09:58 AM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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United States, NY, Plainview
Joined Aug 2005
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Thanks Curtis, I forgot about the 3 plane limit.

As for mid-airs, I wasn't even thinking about launch and landing but I am glad everyone brought it up. I was mostly thinking about contact in a thermal blender where nearly all of the planes are in the same thermal.

Yeah, I understand how it should be better during launch but could get hectic in setting up for landing.

I would think once a thermal is found, then it could be worse depending on the pilot and how much everyone follows the 'Blue sky rules'

Since the mass is more in these compared to DLGs, THAT is what also got me concerned about midairs and the damage. I haven't seen much in the way of TD damage so I didn't know if the number of planes aloft was showing more to occur.

Thanks
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 10:05 AM
Gone Flyin'
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United States, MT, East Helena
Joined Nov 2010
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I was in two last season, one was on landing, where a guy was too high and turned a circle on final and we touched, no damage to either plane. The other in a thermal was a harder impact requiring some repair, broke two ribs and the trailing edge on my Pulsar.
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 01:36 PM
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Frank, I have never had a contact in ALES, both thermalling or launching (but have had a few thermaling in TD), but this brings up an intersting point. I posted the pic below when we were talking about launching the same way. The reason that my year flying ALES I launched on the off side from the rest of the herd, was the this very reason that you have brought up, no contact possible.

Marc
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 07:41 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.M. Gellart View Post
Frank, I have never had a contact in ALES, both thermalling or launching (but have had a few thermaling in TD), but this brings up an intersting point. I posted the pic below when we were talking about launching the same way. The reason that my year flying ALES I launched on the off side from the rest of the herd, was the this very reason that you have brought up, no contact possible.

Marc
Great when you can do it. The year my Supra was wiped out, I saw an instance or two of guys on the end launching at 20 degrees or so DOWN the line across everyone.

The simple protocol of "generally" launching in the same direction until everyone is more or less clear combined with a little communication with your launching neighbors seems to work pretty well.

One of the issues that WILL come up from time to time on launches AND landings is what to do about people whose flights are ruined through no fault of their own. Especially on landings there is a temptation to land from whatever direction you may please. It seems to me that while there is no demonstrated need for strict "lane" rules either for launching or landing, that it is reasonable to suggest that a plane launching or landing at a 90 degree angle to the launch line ought to have something that resembles "right-of-way" over a plane that might cross him. And in the case of interference the right-of-way plane ought to have a case for a re-flight or at least a chance at a timed landing. (This is not a new concept, I have seen it done at TD meets and, in fact, was once allowed a "re-landing" to make up for a landing that was spoiled by another plane).

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
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Agree Don, and as you point out, right away is not always observed. Even when I had to launch with the crowd, I stay low and went fast to basically just get away. Landings, can be a mess too, especially when the wind is light and thermals are all over the place.

Marc
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 05:44 PM
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Collisions

In Spain we fly a lot of F5J FAI. The more you fly the more you see takeoff, landing and mid-air collisions. Problems are probably most common on landings next on takeoff and last in the air. Given the cost of some of the new airships, it would seem prudent to remind people at contests of blue sky rules and the proper direction for takeoff and landing.
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 07:25 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
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my motto is: be the first and be the fastest.
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 08:07 PM
Fly R/C writer
Redlands, Ca
Joined Dec 2004
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Mid-air crashes in ALES

Mid air collisions are simply going to happen anytime you have two or more planes in the sky...it's just a matter of time. As a contest director of ALES events I provide a 10 second window of time to launch and that takes away a lot of the immediate chances of a mid-air. But if pilots see one plane hitting lift and start flocking to him, that simply increases the chance of making contact. You know, two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time? I have 28 mid-airs in my career, not including combat collisions or pylon race collisions. And it also does not include a deliberate landing on the top of another plane while both were at 500 ft. (documented and witnessed).

The thing is, if you fly long enough when others are also in the air, you have the possibility of making contact. Personally, I do not consciously avoid by going out of my way to keep distance. I just go after the lift and take it from there. I know that sounds like flying aggressively or flying stupid, but that's me. By the same token, unless I am in dire need to get lift, I do not chase the lift where everybody else is packed in. Most of the time, I am alone and spiraling up in another thermal. If people start coming my way, I don't worry as I am hoping that by the time they get there, I'm at a higher altitude already. Problem solved.

Mike Lee
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 08:56 PM
"...certainty is absurd."
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Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
my motto is: be the first and be the fastest.
That is so nice of you to get your landing done early, and leave the approach open for the other pilots...!

Kevin
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Old Mar 15, 2014, 01:20 PM
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Staggered launch

When we flew ALES here in Spain (and I think in the UK as well) the rules permitted a 30 second launch window. It made for less stressful and safer flying.
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Old Mar 15, 2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Frederick_r View Post
In Spain we fly a lot of F5J FAI. The more you fly the more you see takeoff, landing and mid-air collisions. Problems are probably most common on landings next on takeoff and last in the air. Given the cost of some of the new airships, it would seem prudent to remind people at contests of blue sky rules and the proper direction for takeoff and landing.
After watching F5J video, I think that Fred is correct. Since low launching, a set window to fly like F3J (a 10 minute that has a hard start and stop and penalty for over flying it), and if there is a call to a single piece of air, I think that 5J could be the bumper pool of soaring. Question though Fred, I thought in all F3 contests, landing can be from any direction and I figured launch could too? Is that wrong...

Marc
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Old Mar 17, 2014, 02:33 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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We have launched as many as 5 at a time at LISF club contests and I don't recall any mid air bumps on launch or landing. But, just like any TD format, if you get multiple planes up in the same thermal there can be contact. I have seen that occur as more than one ESL TD contest Where we might have as many as 8 planes in the air at once.

So you just have to watch what you are doing and hope the next guy does too.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Just saw a bad mid air yesterday at SVSS first ALES comp. a radian hit a Supra taking off his Horz FF stab :-O,, fortunately the pilot was amazingly able to land the plane INVERTED!
Without much damage!
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