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Old Sep 04, 2012, 10:43 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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Launch Video - Comments Please

Well, for some time now I've been threatening to get some video of my launch so that I could analyze it and look for improvement. The problem is I don't know enough looking at it to learn much from it so I'm posting it here to see if I can get some constructive criticism.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

Typical F3K Launch (0 min 5 sec)
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 12:59 PM
Duane
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FWIW, see also at 1:52

Nats F3K 2012 Launches (slo-mo) (7 min 50 sec)
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 01:16 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
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I saw that one too. I hooked the heck out of that launch. I'm doing a lot of that lately.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 01:33 PM
Hey was that a Thermal ????
Joined Nov 2009
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It looks to me like your upperbody is making things happen instead of drivng with your legs. Just my untrained inexperinced eye seeeing things through my dirty glasses.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 01:55 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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Joined May 2002
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Try "walking into" the delivery. This will elongate your swing and get the model further behind you. With the model tucked further back, you can power through the release more and your timing will become later... all of which are good. It's almost impossible to hook the release if the model trails your swing.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 02:08 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
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OK... I sort of thought my little hop step to get turned around wasn't the best. I'll see if I can revamp the whole thing between now and the T4T. I probably need to go back and watch Jun's videos again too.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 03:41 PM
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Mike:

I won't be able to study your videos until later tonight, but be careful watching Jun.

He's great, he's awesome, and he is also unique. What works for him might not work for you.

You're unique, too. There will be a unique path for you own success.

Yours, Greg
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 02:16 AM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang View Post
Mike:

I won't be able to study your videos until later tonight, but be careful watching Jun.

He's great, he's awesome, and he is also unique. What works for him might not work for you.

You're unique, too. There will be a unique path for you own success.

Yours, Greg
Lol! I don't know about the great and awesome part but....

Mike, I tell folks this all the time: my launch is very basic and I try to use as much of the foundations that I talk about to make a smooth and efficient spin. Take the info and use as much as you can. Your own swing will develop around it.
Take it slow and visualize the movements. Even visualize them throughout your day, if you're not busy, and disect the motions. Your goal is to coil up as much as you can.

Your launch looks good. Try to slow it down and concentrate on coiling up. You'll be surprised at how much less effort it really takes to get the same result.

Jun
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 02:51 AM
Sure it'll work
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United States, CA, Torrance
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I'm sure glad to see that I'm not the only one swinging a substatial counter weight just above my belt buckle. Gotta find a way to use that in my favor

Bill
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 03:07 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Fwiw, next time try to get a series of launches into the video. I know it can be a challenge to get help, but it will be worth it. Your launch will vary from throw to throw, much more during the development stage. Take the time to comment to the camera about each throw. After you are done on the field, you will be able to sit back and analyze you're video over a wider sample size. I find the straight ahead or straight behind angle best for self critique. Limit your self to 10-15 throws before you rest and relax. Give your mind and body time to recover. Poor practice makes poor habits.

Re: hooking the throw...late release. Aim for a belt loop level release rather than a shoulder high release. Have faith that the plane will go up, and you will put more power into it with a correctly timed release than a late one.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:24 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
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Thanks for the comments guys. Those will be helpful... well, all of them except the counter weight comment, Bill.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:57 AM
Aussie F3K Pilot
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jun 2008
535 Posts
Hi all,
First I apologize in advance if I comment negatively on anyone's launch, I am just using them as an example and it is only my opinion.

Edit: The launch styles in post 2 show a huge variety of throws, but how do we know which are good and which are bad? It got me thinking about how to define a good launch..

Why am I commenting? Because I want to help and I can launch a Stobel V3 to 200ft+ (60m+) on most days and I have accurately measured my launch heights when I change my technique.

OK here is my opinion on what makes a good launch:

Step 1. You need to be low when you throw. Let me explain: Stand up straight with your feet planted on the ground and twist your body (knees, hips, torso, arm) as much as you can. Keep trying to twist and now bend your knees so you go lower. You will see that you can twist more when you bend your knees. Now lean your torso forward (bend your back) as well and you can see you are the most twisted when your body is low and bent forward/sideways. The second benefit is you can push off with your back leg (RH for RH throwers) when you unwind and use get more energy into the throw.

Step 2. Do the 'hop' before finally planting your feet and get as coiled as possible. Doing the hop helps you twist just before you plant your feet for the final time. The hop gets you coiled more. The more coil, then the more un-coil. The more uncoil, the more energy you can impart into the plane. At the point of unwinding your feet, knees, hips, shoulders and throwing arm should all be twisted a little more relative to each other.

Step 3. Snap your lagging arm. Your arm must be the last thing to unwind as you throw. Practice with your feet planted flat and not moving (for this exercise). In slow motion practice coiling up and then uncoiling without a plane in your hand. Your arm should lag behind your body until your body has totally unwound and then 'SNAP' your arm through as fast as you can and also keep your arm perfectly horizontal - do not throw up. Notice you can not snap you arm as fast if you aim up!!

Step 4. Follow through: Lean into the throw to transfer your body mass forward as you release, let your throwing arm come right across your body until it is wrapped around your torso (low) and take an extra step forward. Bruce Davidson explains it perfectly when he describes throwing DLG like a golf swing - the more follow through you have the longer the golf ball goes. The same with DLG. In the video's look for how much body/arm motion there is after the plane is released. The more the better.

Step 5. Don't throw up, throw flat. This does two things, as per item 1 the lower you are the more coil you get and more importantly the more UN-COIL you get. By throwing up you stop your follow through and you stop your un-coil. Use a launch pre-set to make the plane rotate after release. You should be aiming at the trees in front of you on release. The extra speed you get from throwing flat (down) gives you a greater launch in the end. It gives me 15 - 25 ft (5-8m) extra height because my body can un-coil fully and follow through.


OK here is how some of the launches in the video on 'Post #2' rate for each of the 5 Steps (one point for each Step done correctly):

Time in video: Step 1. Step2. Step 3. Step 4. Step 5. Rating relative to the number of steps done correctly. Comment.

0:29 (Bruce): Low. Hop. Snap. Follow through - watch for the amount of body/arm motion after the plane leaves his hand. Not flat. 4 out of 5. Good. Bruce you need to watch your own youtube video a few more times to stop throwing up!! :-)

0:51: Not low. Hop. No snap - notice at 1:07 his arm is in line with his shoulders, there is no lag. Follow through. Slightly up. 2.5/5 OK.

2.09: Low. Hop. Snap. Follow through. Flat. 5/5 Excellent

2.32: Low. Hop. Snap. OK follow through. Slightly up. 4.5/5 Very good.

2.52: Not low. No hop - only steps. Snap. Minimal follow through. Throws up. 1/5

Take a look and see if you can pick the good points and the bad points in the different throws.


Mr Wiz - How do you rate yourself on my scale?


Again I apologise if I pick on anyones launch style, it is only to help us all learn and get better!

Cheers,
Marcus

Just to clarify - Some good technique launchers (above) may not actually get high launches because it is also dependent on plane, settings and plane trajectory after release. This only deals with the technique.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:40 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machineman View Post
Mr Wiz - How do you rate yourself on my scale?
Well, if I look at the slow motion video from the Nats (start about at 1:54) and not the first video I posted this is how I see it. I'm not low. I am throwing upwards and maybe I'm not coiled enough. 2.5/5.... What do you think?

Mike
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:44 PM
Duane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machineman View Post
The problem with showing all the launch styles in post 2 is that anyone learning does not know which style gives a good launch and which gives a bad one. It doesn't actually help much!
My Nats slo-mo video was not meant to be a how-to, but rather a record of a random sampling of launches, whether good or bad. I did try to get some of the known-good launchers. I hoped that it would be helpful to analyze what works and what doesn't. In this case, I happened to capture one of Mr. Wiz's launches and thought the slo-mo might contribute to the discussion.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 12:49 PM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Hip should lead the shoulder - yours is stopping about 15 degrees too soon, and it lags behind the launch. At 2:05 in the nats video, you launched while leaning backwards -
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