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Old Sep 28, 2012, 04:08 PM
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scott page's Avatar
United States, WA, Richland
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Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
Rejoice, scott! I can't tell you how many hours I've spent sweltering under the blazing sun trying to get a given plane to spin nice and flat. I'm not an EDF guy but I would assume that a flat spin will stall the blades and result in zero thrust. A flat spin with zero thrust is, at best, hair raising!
LOL. I too have endeavored to get a truly flat spin with my prop planes -- and I'm not as good as others I watch. However a flat . horizontal and truly flat spin with an EDF -- or at least this EDF is just horrifying. While everyone else at the field saw was a crash, I saw a a major triumph because I was able to sort of recover and survive with no damage. It occurred to me later that if I'd played it out and spun all the way it might have fallen slow enough to survive landing in a flat spin. I'll let somebody else try that first.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by phoxache View Post
I don't know much at all about this sort of thing. I would have assumed that weighting the wing tip would make it worse once it started fluttering...

It sounds like I'll be experiencing it first hand when the Zephyr turns up. Is it really bad?
Its a great aircraft if flown on 3S and you probably wont see any flutter issues on 3s apart from a down wind full throttle dive where some care needs to be taken. The wings will twist around a bit banking at speed in a stiff cross wind as well. Basically though you can fly it reliably on 3S in winds up to around 20km/h. The guys that report serious flutter issues are pushing the Zephyr beyond the airframes limits on 4s. If your planning on exceeding 80mph your probably better off with a Hobbyking Stinger, or non foam airframe model.

Mick
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Hi,
I have seen articles on using laminating film on wood structures where very high temperatures are used for fixing and shrinking. How do you go about using laminating film on foam which is heat sensitive..
Alan.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:51 PM
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Australia, WA, Joondalup
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by Biggles99 View Post
Hi,
I have seen articles on using laminating film on wood structures where very high temperatures are used for fixing and shrinking. How do you go about using laminating film on foam which is heat sensitive..
Alan.
Hey Alan,
I have been using a sealing iron (same tool used to apply any brand of coating. eg; monokote)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXB364&P=ML

The laminate doesn't need a lot of heat to activate the adhesive, so just heat & apply pressure avoiding wrinkles.
Cheers Brad.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:22 AM
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Hi Brad,
Thanks for the fast response. I have one of those irons in the ad., what sort of temperature are you using with it ( I don't have anything to practice on )and are you placing the laminate over the decals. Are you wrapping the film around the leading edge or using two pieces top and bottom. I don't want to damage the wing or risk the laminate lifting in flight obviously. I and my club love the sound of the fan, do you know if fitting a coffee cup thrust tube alters it at all.
Thanks Alan
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:19 AM
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I haven't done the thrust tube mod Alan, but early in the thread people reported that it reduced the sound a bit.
As for the iron, setting is around 130 deg C.
The V-70 lands on its wings, so I went with laminating over decals to protect them. It just means you wont be able to change the design / colour after its done.
Check out page 99 if you want to see laminate over decals.
Due to the sheet size I'm using (A3), It required overlapping the laminate to cover the full surface. (first top surface then underside)
Edges have a small overlap as well, keep this to a minimum on curved sections, ie wing tips, this should help with the wrinkles.
Start buy applying pressure with the iron in the middle of a flat surface of the wing, ironing towards the edges with a bit of tension on the film so it doesn't wrinkle.
Just keep in mind, 2D curves are quite easy to apply the film to, its the 3D sections where wrinkles will form.
Hope that helps.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Its a great aircraft if flown on 3S and you probably wont see any flutter issues on 3s apart from a down wind full throttle dive where some care needs to be taken. The wings will twist around a bit banking at speed in a stiff cross wind as well. Basically though you can fly it reliably on 3S in winds up to around 20km/h. The guys that report serious flutter issues are pushing the Zephyr beyond the airframes limits on 4s. If your planning on exceeding 80mph your probably better off with a Hobbyking Stinger, or non foam airframe model.

Mick
Thanks Mick,

I have 4000mah 3s so it's good to hear that the flutter problems are mainly when running 4s.

Hopefully the postman should bring it on Monday. Fingers crossed.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:59 AM
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United States, AL, Huntsville
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Originally Posted by phoxache View Post
Thanks Mick,

I have 4000mah 3s so it's good to hear that the flutter problems are mainly when running 4s.
+1; Some folks attempt to fly the the Zephyr as a hotliner.....that's their choice, of course. It is not designed to fly as a hotliner, nor was it ever claimed to be one!

It's lot's of fun on 3S
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bamaguy View Post
+1; Some folks attempt to fly the the Zephyr as a hotliner.....that's their choice, of course. It is not designed to fly as a hotliner, nor was it ever claimed to be one!

It's lot's of fun on 3S
Cheers dude. It's good to hear.

Can't wait to get my hands on it.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 01:50 AM
Imagination is my only limit
Joined Sep 2012
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Zephyer prototype

Please excuse my ignorance in any of this but I'm attempting to do something that I think will be both radical and awesome. I'm attempting to fuse two V70's together while making significant modifications to create a high altitude drone. The main thing I want to add is a systems canopy where I can add various electronics to perform a different array of experiments, including HD video, telemetry, cosmic radiation detection and various other fun stuff. This canopy would sit in the middle.

In addition to adding the different experiments to the systems canopy I will also be using it to add extra batteries to power the custom Zephyr. Not to worry after the prototype is build I will take painstaking care to make sure it's extremely balanced and not overloaded. However I need help/advise with the following.

1. What is the maximum weight load that a normal Zephyr can lift at 50% - 70% throttle? (example 4 lbs).
2. What is the average flight time using a 3300mah 3S 65~130C Lipo?
3. If there was room, such as in my systems canopy and adding the needed batteries, is it ever possible to get more than 2 hours of continues flight time? This goes back to question # 1 as far as weight.


Please see my attached concept mock up to get an idea of what I'm attempting. Please excuse it's crudeness. Thank you for any and all help.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Canada
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You've picked the wrong plane for your drone project. The V70 doesn't have what you might call a "high lift" wing. Secondly, EDFs like this are not efficient means of propulsion. They require a lot of power to do what a prop driven plane with a much smaller (and more fuel efficient) motor can do.
High altitude? What do you call high? A V70 will run full tilt on 3300 mahs for less than a few minutes. You won't get very high on that amount of time. And when you get up there, it's going to sink like a perforated manhole cover. It's not really a very good glider. Where a prop driven glider can maintain altitude on very little power consumption, a V70 will need considerable throttle and power to stay up there.
I flew my X8 wing this morning to 3330 feet on 1/2 of the safe power drain of 6600 mah. It took over 5 minutes to get up there and just power off gliding, it took almost 15 minutes to come back down. Had I caught the right wind and thermals, it could have stayed up for hours with minimal power usage. And the X8 will carry a huge payload (7' wingspan). X8's have been known to get up to several thousands of feet and loiter for a couple of hours on 20,000 mah. The V70 wouldn't have a prayer trying to duplicate this kind of performance. It can barely carry its own weight, let alone enough batteries to hang up there for many minutes. Doubling the fans while keeping those thin, skinny wings won't even double your carrying capacity or flying time.
The cool factor will most certainly be there, but it won't like do what you want it to.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:20 AM
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scott page's Avatar
United States, WA, Richland
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneikei View Post
Please excuse my ignorance in any of this but I'm attempting to do something that I think will be both radical and awesome. I'm attempting to fuse two V70's together while making significant modifications to create a high altitude drone. The main thing I want to add is a systems canopy where I can add various electronics to perform a different array of experiments, including HD video, telemetry, cosmic radiation detection and various other fun stuff. This canopy would sit in the middle.

In addition to adding the different experiments to the systems canopy I will also be using it to add extra batteries to power the custom Zephyr. Not to worry after the prototype is build I will take painstaking care to make sure it's extremely balanced and not overloaded. However I need help/advise with the following.

1. What is the maximum weight load that a normal Zephyr can lift at 50% - 70% throttle? (example 4 lbs).
2. What is the average flight time using a 3300mah 3S 65~130C Lipo?
3. If there was room, such as in my systems canopy and adding the needed batteries, is it ever possible to get more than 2 hours of continues flight time? This goes back to question # 1 as far as weight.


Please see my attached concept mock up to get an idea of what I'm attempting. Please excuse it's crudeness. Thank you for any and all help.
It's a cool idea but will not work. The Zepher is not the right frame for the project.

You would be better off with a frame like a bixler 2 for this sort of project. If you want to reach high altitudes you're going to need to consider extending the motor mount, or other way to facilitate an 8x4 prop. Currently the frame will facilitate a 7" prop.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by scott page View Post
It's a cool idea but will not work. The Zepher is not the right frame for the project.

You would be better off with a frame like a bixler 2 for this sort of project. If you want to reach high altitudes you're going to need to consider extending the motor mount, or other way to facilitate an 8x4 prop. Currently the frame will facilitate a 7" prop.
Agree. Zephyr is a very bad choice of airframe. In this sort of size and price range the Bixler 2 is the way. Check out the Bixler and FPV threads for tips on heavy lifting.

Getting 2 hours from a modified Bixler 2 is a far more achievable goal.

To best achieve your aims, going for something with a much bigger wingspan would be advisable.
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Last edited by phoxache; Oct 01, 2012 at 02:55 AM.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:53 AM
Imagination is my only limit
Joined Sep 2012
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I picked the V70 because of all the online perform reviews are its speed, balance and agility. I guess I got sucked into the hype. So whats the verdict. The X8 or the Bixler 2?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:00 AM
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I finally got my Zephyr in the post.

It feels nice and solid but I'm a bit annoyed by the fact it's a bit grubby (like someone with dirty hands built it) and the decals are all bubbly and wrinkly.

I may have to strip most of the decals off. I'm not over keen on them anyway.

I remember seeing one in the HK videos when they were developing it with no decals and it looked pretty cool.

*edit: And the control rods are rusty. Feels very second hand to me.
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Last edited by phoxache; Oct 01, 2012 at 07:15 AM.
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