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Old Apr 13, 2012, 09:14 PM
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The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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Build Log
PZ FW 190 Overhaul!

Well kiddies...tonight I begin restoring a crashed, rebuilt (in a very interesting way), and recrashed Focke Wulf 190 from ParkZone.

I'll be stripping the plasticote off, fiberglassing, adding dual aileron servos, rudder, brushless motor/esc, 5/6ch rx, and finishing off the paintwork with a custom scheme, and some light weathering.

Stay tuned for pics this evening!
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 11:36 PM
Go Ugly Early
The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
1,128 Posts
Nailed down my motor selection. I'm going to put a spare Rimfire 28-30 1250 in my smaller 1 pound P-47B, and take the PZ480 from it...it was a bit too much motor anyhow for that small of a plane.

Shortly, I'll post up some pics of the 190 stripped down, and repaired.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 01:29 AM
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The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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Stripped the plasticote off, as well as the depron skeleton that was liberally hot-glued in. It was rigid, and probably light enough...but it left wing and motor attachment as unknowns, and I would have had to reinforce everything with thin ply just to get a questionable mount. So...$2 on ebay for a skele. I opted for an additional $5 for a new cowling. I can reuse the old one, but I figured with combined shipping from Phil's...might as well do it.

After stripping the plane of all plasticote, hot glue, random tape, and depron...I was able to carve off 3.4oz.

As or repairs to the foam...a lot of people have been asking how to repair this old vacuum-formed depron "stuff".

Well here it goes. It's pretty easy, although this stuff is very flexy without a stiffening skin on it. This bird had tears in the fuselage and wing, that were hot glued back together. There were gaps, and missing pieces, and edges that didn't align, due to the foam shedding as the hot glue was removed by me.

The fix is simple...a little Gorilla Glue and blue painter's tape will not only create a strong, permanent, lightweight bond...but if you tape it right, it will fill gaps as well. Take the edges you want to join, and tape the underside. You then want to moisten the surfaces to be joined with a wet q-tip. squeeze the Gorilla Glue into the gap or crack from the untaped side. When you get enough in there to barely coat all surfaces, blue-tape the side that has no tape. Gorilla Glue will expand to firmly grip the foam, then expand outward to the tape, where it flattens out. The next day, you pull the tape off, and gently trim (with a hobby knife) any bubbles or bulges. The repair is much stronger than the surrounding foam, and will blend reasonably smooth with the rest of the surface.

My camera software is not cooperating, so I'll post this, restart my laptop, and try the pics again.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 04:00 AM
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yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
Great! - I'm glad you got started on this project HP because I'll be following with interest.

I'm doing much the same thing, but at probably a much slower pace than you as I've got a few other projects getting in the way.

I removed all the depron skin, but didn't weigh it - your figures are convincing me it was the right thing to do. As to the airframe - I was thinking of brushing on a coat of water-based polyurethane, letting that dry completely and then putting some 1/4-ounce fibreglass cloth on it (again using a brush with wbpu). Then some "Selley's Lightweight Filler" to ensure the weave of the cloth was covered before sanding and finishing off with one more coat of wbpu prior to paining. What are your plans for surfacing?

One thing I did notice too, which I don't want you to overlook - when I was peeling the tape off the leading edge of the wing I gently prised apart the upper and lower depron sheets for a look inside. I didn't make a very thorough check (and I can't actually do that now either, unfortunately) but it didn't seem to have a very convincing wing-spar in place! There was some styrofoam padding to ensure the depron sheets offered an aerofoil, but I couldn't see anything like a nice carbon-fibre spar. Have a look at yours and see what you think - there might be one there (or perhaps a lite-ply version) but I dunno.

Good luck with this, and as I say, I'm along for the ride!
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Canada
Joined Nov 2000
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would the steam kettle method of removing creases and dents from foam not work to restore the foam bits to an 'as made' condition ?
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Orion Pax's Avatar
Shreveport Louisiana
Joined Dec 2006
6,302 Posts
There is a NIP FW-190 wing at my LHS. If you want I can check and see what he wants for it so you can start off with a decent wing instead of a weighed down patch work puzzle of one.

Orion
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 07:02 PM
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The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrumevets View Post
Great! - I'm glad you got started on this project HP because I'll be following with interest.

I'm doing much the same thing, but at probably a much slower pace than you as I've got a few other projects getting in the way.

I removed all the depron skin, but didn't weigh it - your figures are convincing me it was the right thing to do. As to the airframe - I was thinking of brushing on a coat of water-based polyurethane, letting that dry completely and then putting some 1/4-ounce fibreglass cloth on it (again using a brush with wbpu). Then some "Selley's Lightweight Filler" to ensure the weave of the cloth was covered before sanding and finishing off with one more coat of wbpu prior to paining. What are your plans for surfacing?

One thing I did notice too, which I don't want you to overlook - when I was peeling the tape off the leading edge of the wing I gently prised apart the upper and lower depron sheets for a look inside. I didn't make a very thorough check (and I can't actually do that now either, unfortunately) but it didn't seem to have a very convincing wing-spar in place! There was some styrofoam padding to ensure the depron sheets offered an aerofoil, but I couldn't see anything like a nice carbon-fibre spar. Have a look at yours and see what you think - there might be one there (or perhaps a lite-ply version) but I dunno.

Good luck with this, and as I say, I'm along for the ride!
Surfacing will be 18 gram per sq. meter cloth...extremely thin. I'll lather on 3-4 thinned coats of Poly-C. The foam spar int he wing won't matter...the fiberglass and Poly-C will stiffin it up quite a bit...although I may put in a balsa spar for a little extra oomph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bare View Post
would the steam kettle method of removing creases and dents from foam not work to restore the foam bits to an 'as made' condition ?
I don't know...I may try that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Pax View Post
There is a NIP FW-190 wing at my LHS. If you want I can check and see what he wants for it so you can start off with a decent wing instead of a weighed down patch work puzzle of one.

Orion
Hey Orion...I appreciate it, but I am, once again, trying to build a plane for as close to "free" as I can...using only what I have, or what I can trade for, except for little things.

Thanks!
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:17 PM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Feb 2012
78 Posts
Nice! I was just about to start a thread on my own PZ 190 rebuild so I'm glad to see yours is coming along. I'm going a different way with mine, but I'd be glad to bounce ideas off of each other.

EDIT: link to my thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1636099
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Bethesda, MD
Joined Jul 2006
390 Posts
I have one of these that's looking (more than) a little ragged after an unfortunate encounter with one of the trees at the edge of our field.

Was thinking about retiring it, but I'm interested to see how yours turns out.

What did you use to remove the skin off the foam, without damaging the foam itself, if I may ask?
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 08:33 PM
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The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post
I have one of these that's looking (more than) a little ragged after an unfortunate encounter with one of the trees at the edge of our field.

Was thinking about retiring it, but I'm interested to see how yours turns out.

What did you use to remove the skin off the foam, without damaging the foam itself, if I may ask?
You may not ask...and how dare you pop into a build log and ask how something was done!

OK...seriously, I find a bubble, or a crack, and start peeling from there. It comes off very easily, but you do have to be careful not to rip chunks of damaged foam out...although they are easily repairable.

Wiper...I looked at yours, and man that thing look(ed) good! I'll jump back on it this weekend. I will build a motor mount while the first set of glass cloth is curing.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 04:12 PM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post
What did you use to remove the skin off the foam, without damaging the foam itself, if I may ask?
I just used my scalpel and hemostats to peel up edges and pull the skin back. Like with masking tape, be sure to pull at a sharp angle so you get clean tears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hog Pen View Post
Wiper...I looked at yours, and man that thing look(ed) good! I'll jump back on it this weekend. I will build a motor mount while the first set of glass cloth is curing.
I appreciate the good words... I wanted to spend more time building and detailing it, but I was rightly worried that it wouldn't fly properly. This time around I'll go into a lot more detailing.

Looking forward to seeing your motor mount... I'm going to end up fitting the foam cylinder into the original nylon ring so I can maintain the cowl and wing root mounting points, but will cut out the battery/rx/esc/servo tray and build a new one out of foam to fit my electronics.

-Andy
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 12:00 AM
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yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
Wing-spar

I'm still a bit concerned about the wing-spar - I really don't want to spend a lot of time on a restoration job, only to have the thing clap hands as I try and come out of a high-speed dive ... and I'm really looking forward to doing some low-passes out of a dive.

I found one of these things in my junk box - it's a spar removed from a destroyed PZ Trojan wing (you can see tufts of the grey z-foam still stuck to it). It weighs 28 g (1 oz) and it's made out of that printed-circuit-board fibreglass sheet (can't think what that stuff is called now). It goes into the wing in the vertical plane of course and only needs a narrow slot 2mm wide cut into the wing to accommodate it. The good thing is that it already has the dihedral cut into it!
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 12:54 AM
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The Hog Pen's Avatar
Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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I think that would work! For mine...I'm not going to put a spar in the wing. If you could see how tough this glass/poly-c combo is...I (personally) don't see the need. But then again...I fly easy...I prefer to cruise by as slow as possible, and do lazy circuits. I know everyone who flies has their own "thing". I like to look at my warbirds in flight, and imagine I was there...in WWII...watching these things pass by in real life.

Toinight...I'm building the rudder, and going back over the wing to fill creases and pock marks. I also epoxied the pastic wing attachment...the pegs the screws go through were cracked at the base. Epoxy, tape in place...and it should be ok.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 01:21 AM
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yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
All good, HP - you're right, everyone has their own particular thing.

You're probably also right about the glass cloth being able to do the structural work too - I imagine one sheet spanning the entire wing underside would not let the wings flap about much, once it was nicely bonded to the surface. With the upper side getting the same treament it would be strong as well as resistant to knocks and bumps ... hmm, you've got me in two minds now, I can save an ounce by leaving that spar out ... decisions, decisions ...

I suppose the sensible thing is to do as you're doing with the glass cloth both sides and then see how much flex the wing has before going any further - if it still needs the spar, I'll dremel a slot for it and glue it in, otherwise it's surplus to requirements.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Azle, TX
Joined Oct 2010
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To be clear...there's no harm in slotting in a spar. I did this with my 1st gen PZ P-51...but not with my 1st gen Spitfire. The glass cloth and poly-c combo is so strong, I can barely get my GWS Beaver wing to flex (in flight...or even crashing it) at all...and that is a single piece with no internal support.
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