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Old Sep 23, 2014, 05:08 PM
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Guardian set up problems

I am a new member and this is my first post. I have been flying RC heli's and planes for about two years on my own with no help. So I can fly but not great. I purchased a guardian 2D/3D system to install on my1200mm Dynam T28 foamie. I got it installed using the gear channel for mod input but the guardian is not set up properly. I am having trouble centering the trims but Realtree support just told me to turn off the guardian before I try to set the trims which I will try next. My main problem is my ale and rudd are not compensating correctly. The elev compensates correctly but with the trim way off the compensation is exaggerated on the up side and minimized on the down side. The rudd does not compensate at all. The ailerons compensate correctly for roll but they also compensate for yaw which dosen't make sense. I am using the Dynam Tx and Rx. The receiver has channels for elev ,ale, thro, rudd, gear and aux1 and aux 2. The Tx has a knob for gain that adjusts gain on all the servo's , a switch for the gear which I am using for the mod connection during set up but will connect it back to the gear servo's before flying and a throttle protect switch. If anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong setting up the guardian I will very much appreciate it Oh, also I have a Spektrum 6i Tx and a matching Rx which I could use in the T 28 if I have to but the Dynam equipment ought to work. I am only interested in 2D compsnsation for now.

Jim
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Old Sep 23, 2014, 10:13 PM
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Come on guys . I need help if I am to set this thing up. Can't do it by myself. Thanks
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Old Sep 23, 2014, 11:00 PM
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Which firmware/software version do you have? Did you initialize the Guardian with your PC? Is the LED on the Guardian on or flashing?
Unless there is a (rare) compatibility problem with your servos, the Guardian, in off mode, should have no effect on your controls, so first make sure the LED on it is not lit or flashing. Next, center the trim and sticks on your transmitter, and make sure the controls on the aircraft are as close to trim as mechanically possible. If you transmitter has built-in mixes, like flaperons, make sure that they are not active.
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 11:59 PM
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guardian 2d/3d

Thanks wintr. I don't know which version firmware I am using and I did not initialize the guardian with my PC.. I have centered my controls and my trims on my TX The LED light on the guardian is slowly flashing. The guardian when turned off has no effect on my controls but when turned on in 2D mode I believe, the elevator compensates, the rudder does not compensate and the ailerons compensate for yaw as well as roll. Something is not right but I don't have any idea what. Any suggestions about what I can do to get the guardian to compensate correctly for yaw pitch and roll in 2D mode? Thanks for your help.

JIm
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 09:03 AM
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OK, so you have the firmware that it ships with. If the LED is flashing, it is not off; if I recall correctly, the slow flash indicates 2D mode is active. The mode input is three state, with off in the middle of the control range.

If you haven't found them, there are other threads that thoroughly discuss setup. Some are quite long, but what you need should be in the first few pages:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1596644
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2148647
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1838362
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Last edited by Wintr; Sep 25, 2014 at 09:09 AM.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 08:59 PM
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Guardian setup

Thanks wintr. I will read through them. What I don't understand is my guardian is set up and working but the ailerons should not control both roll and yaw compensation. That is what I am trying to find out about. I will read through them and see what I can find. Thanks again

JIm
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 09:30 PM
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guardian 2D/3D problems

wintr let me explain my problem another way. I may not actually have a problem. Because I know so little about this sport I may be witnessing a situation that is perfectly normal. If I manually roll the airplane with the guardian on, the ailerons will compensate. Then if I sit the airplane back down on it's wheels on a flat surface. the ailerons return to their trimmed condition. Now if i rotate the plane while keeping the wheels on the flat surface so that the nose is now pointing in the opposite direction the ailerons will compensate as though the plane was in a roll. Since it is flat on the ground on it's wheels the whole time there is no roll. I have just changed the heading 180 degrees. Does this indicate a problem or is it normal?

JIm
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 10:11 PM
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If the LED is slowly flashing, it is in 2DHH (heading hold) mode. In this mode, it attempts to return to the heading it acquired when the sticks were released, and does it with ailerons and elevator, not rudder. As a result, when in the air, if you use the rudder to crab the airplane, it will roll to counter that command. If you update to the newest (so-called beta) firmware, you can select 2D-only mode, which will hold the aircraft in the preset level position, but will allow you to use the rudder to crab into a crosswind, or even do a slow, flat turn.

If you change the mode input to 3DHH (LED on steady), it will counter the rotation with whichever controls will hold it in the set heading. Lift the tail, and the rudder should rise, lift one wing and the aileron on that wing should rise, yaw, and the rudder should move against the yaw.

Note that the gain controls set how strong the responses are, and even which direction the surfaces move. You need to verify that each control moves to counter the movement of the aircraft, so it doesn't add to the divergence, instead of correcting it.
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 12:41 PM
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guardian

Thanks wintr. That explains it well. I didn't think I had a problem but just didn't understand enough to know what was happening. I am going to get the guardian hooked up to my computer and update the firmware and see if I can switch between 2D and 3D. The control surfaces are all compensating correctly. I just didn't understand what happened when the heading changed. I don't believe I have enough channels to switch between 2D and 3D while the plane is in the air. That being the case which mode would you recommend I take of and fly in, 2D or 3D? Finally if I attempt to fly the plane with the guardian installed just as it is in 2D with the heading lock on will it fly or crash? Thank you very much. You have been very helpful in making me begin to understand what is going on. I have a lot to learn but that's part of what makes it fun.

Jim
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 10:37 PM
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Ideally, you would have a three position switch, like the one commonly used for flaps, to use for the mode. If you have only a two position switch, and install the new firmware, you can choose which modes apply to each switch position.
I almost always take off in 3DHH; I taxi out, make sure all three controls have been waggled after switching 3D on, then just throttle up.

If you set in a good level for 2D, landing that way is not bad, unless you have to land in fairly strong crosswinds; then, trying to use rudder to crab into the wind is counter-productive. With the new firmware, you can just have 2D without HH, which holds the aircraft level, but doesn't fight the rudder. I sometimes land this way, and sometimes with 3DHH, depending on how turbulent the winds are. I also use 2D to recover orientation, for those models than can fool you, or when there are clouds to make seeing the model clearly difficult.
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Old Sep 27, 2014, 08:54 PM
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guardian

I think I will get it into 3DHH and just l;eave it there for take off and landing until I understand more. I could use my gear switch to toggle between 2d and 3D but then I would have to hand launch a heavy low wing plane that I haven't ever flown before and I am afraid I would just fly it straight into the ground and destroy it. My other option is to hook the guardian up to a 800mm FMS Corsair that I have and use my Spektrum 6i TX and associaated RX. I have more switches to play with on the Spektrum TX and if I destroy the corsair I want have lost very much. It has very little room in the fuselage to mount the receiver and the guardian. I might have to put the sattelite RX on the outside of the fuselage. Yes I think I will start over and use the Corsair. I am sure there are enough switches on the Spektrum TX to accomodate a 2D/3D in air transition. It has fixed wheels and no flaps. The one thing my other receiver does have is a gain knob that adjusts all the gains at the same time in the air. I am not sure if I can do that with the 6i. If I can't then what gains would you recommend I use before take off with the Corsair.. Thanks

Jim
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Old Sep 27, 2014, 09:23 PM
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Where the manual gains are set depend very much on how the aircraft flies. With my trainer-like aircraft, I have the gains all the way up. With my T28 Trojan, the gain is max for rudder (Yaw), and about 80% on the others, because it flies faster, and will begin to oscillate at full throttle if the gains are too high. If I had a spare linear channel, I would turn it up for slower flight, and down for fast, but I don't, so it's set just below when it seems to start wobbling on its own.

I would think your Corsair should start out similar to my Trojan; if you have the gain control, set it mid-way, then you can experiment in the air. If it's a calm day, you probably won't notice the G doing much, except HH will hold an attitude for you.
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Old Sep 29, 2014, 07:25 PM
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Spektrum DX8

Wintr, if I purchased a Spektrum DX8 would I have enough channels to handle elev, thro, aiel, rudder, gear, flaps, and a 3 position switch for the guardian mode selection in flight and also a knob or slider for gain correction in flight. Don't know if you have ever seen one? I haven't. if you don't know much about them I will go to the local hobby store and see if they have one I can look at. I downloaded the DX8 manual but I couldn't tell from that if it could handle everything or not. Hobby Zone has them for sale with a free matching RX to go with it.

Jim
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Old Sep 29, 2014, 07:59 PM
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I use a Futaba 7C, and have everything but a spare analog channel for gain (I use it for flap settings). I should think 8 channels would have you covered, if they have inputs to cover the two functions the G could use.
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Old Sep 29, 2014, 09:12 PM
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Guardian

Thanks, I am going to the hobby store tomorrow and see if they have one that I can check out. The Hobby ZONE deal with the free DX8 compatible receiver is the way to go if I buy one. I haven't mentioned I have an E-Flite Apprentice 15E with the 3 axis gyro installed at the factory ( I forget what they call it, SAFEtechnology I think),, and E-Flite Corsair with the SAFE technology. They are both a blast to fly especially the Corsair. I take the Appretice off from the ground on a grass field and I hand launch the Corsair. You can get a lot of altitude and try anything you want in the advanced mode and if you get in trouble just hit the panic button and you instantly return to straight and level flight. The Apprentice is teaching me to land. So far I can land in the intermediate mode but not the advanced mode. When I try to land in the advance mode I invariably have to abort and go around. Thr reason I want to get the guardian working is so I can have the same experience with my other planes as I do with the E-Flites with SAFE technology. I have a Fun Cub that is just too much for me at this stage but with the Guardian working I could start flying it. I have only been participating in this hobby for 2 years and much of that time I was sick with a very serious lung infection. It's like I am starting over again. One other thing, I have micro T-28 which has no SAFE technology or anything else. It is fairly quick yet I don't have any trouble flying it. Go Figure. Sorry for rambling but it is nice to converse with someone who is knowledgeable about RC. I only know of one other person in my area who fly's RC planes.
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