HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 11, 2005, 09:41 PM
Let the good times roll
Southern California
Joined Jun 2004
260 Posts
Norvel help

Alright, I have finally decided to get this engine running and broken in. These little engines seem so much more complicated than the bigger ones in terms of breaking in. So I have a few questions because the norvel site doesnt include a whole lot of info concering their .074.

1. What nitro % should I run? I have some 15 from previous models but a lot of people say that norvels need very little.

2. What prop should I run for break in/running. I have heard that 6x3 is good for average running but how much smaller should I go for break in.

3. I have prelubed it with some really light weight oil and have turned it over a good 100 times. I havent brought myself to purchase a starter so how easy is it gonna be to get it running by hand?

4. Will a standard glow plug "lighter" work for this?

Well, thats all the questions I can come up with for now, but im sure I will have plenty more. Thanks for all the help anyway.
TheCrow is offline Find More Posts by TheCrow
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 12, 2005, 03:31 AM
VidViper
roger ingersoll's Avatar
western Oregon
Joined Feb 2005
65 Posts
The Norvel break-in is truly daunting--but the payoff is that they're then virtually immortal.

I, too, just got my first .074, and I'm looking forward to breaking it in. (That's right, LOOKING FORWARD).

Norvels do need very little nitro to run--nitro's illegal in Russia, so they will run even without it--but the sheet that came with mine recommends 15%.

6 x 3's prob'ly a kool prop size. These engines really needle great on the smallest possible prop--that was my lesson with my .049. Till I cut my prop down to 4.25 inches, I could not get the .049 engine to hold needle.

You might be able to go down to 5.75 inches on that 6 x 3 prop--hopefully some more experienced Norvel users will join this thread.

This may fly in the face of what you're gonna hear from others, but I've NEVER used/trusted electric starters. The advice that got me going best was to get that simple little spring starter Norvel makes to fit behind the prop. It gives just enough of an extra kick to get the engine running on the first or second try--and you don't run the risk of a crank warp--which is inherent to the use of an electric starter.

And yes, your standard glowplug lighter will work fine. I use a power panel, with the rheostat set just under 4.

Did you not get the little starter sheet, with your motor?

The only tricky part for me was to monitor the engine during the several tankloads I ran through it during break-in. Norvel says a minimum of 15 minutes of running time for break-in, "but engine operation may improve over the first hour of running time." (Norvel quote). This is obviously not a continuous running time, but with a cool down between tankfulls.

Unlike lots of other kinds of engines, a Norvel likes to be needled to peak and then enriched slightly, so that it breaks back and forth between 2- and 4-stroke mode. Running them continuously in the 4-stroke, over-rich mode will make them overheat, as the prop's not spinning fast enough for proper cooling.

After four or five tankfulls run this way--with cooling-off periods in between--start needling it leaner and leaner with every run. If, while in the leaner setting, it starts to bog and slow down, be ready enrich it a bit, then go lean again.

When the engine will hold a lean (peak rpm) needle setting for a full tank, it's broken in.

For me, on the .049 and .061 Norvels, this took the better part of an hour's running time.

Do keep us posted on your progress.

Luck,
M
roger ingersoll is offline Find More Posts by roger ingersoll
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 12, 2005, 07:48 AM
Registered User
Western KY
Joined Sep 2003
1,599 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCrow

1. What nitro % should I run? I have some 15 from previous models but a lot of people say that norvels need very little.

2. What prop should I run for break in/running. I have heard that 6x3 is good for average running but how much smaller should I go for break in.

3. I have prelubed it with some really light weight oil and have turned it over a good 100 times. I havent brought myself to purchase a starter so how easy is it gonna be to get it running by hand?

4. Will a standard glow plug "lighter" work for this?
1. 15% will be fine, just make sure it contains sufficient oil content. 18% to 20% castor -- keep the synthetic percentage low.

2. 6x3 is fine for breakin -- I think you will find a 7x3 better for most flying

3. If the engine is still tight, it can be difficult to start by hand. You may want to remove the muffler initially just to clear it and to prime if necessary. I usually start with 2 or 3 drops down the venturi for prime.

4. A standard igniter will work -- if the initial starting sequence takes some time, you may want to have a second battery or ignitor charged up.

5. Get the engine up to operating temp as quickly as possible -- unlike cycling the larger engines into a very rich 4 cycle, you want to keep the NORVELs warm. If they run too cool, lack of thermal expansion will cause increased top end wear and stress the lower end. Some folks, myself included, use a heat gun to pre-heat the cylinder and reduce the tightness at TDC.
Andrew0820 is offline Find More Posts by Andrew0820
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 12, 2005, 08:26 PM
Let the good times roll
Southern California
Joined Jun 2004
260 Posts
Alright, that sounds good. I think ill be able to make it down to the LHS this weekend to pick up a mount for my stand and a new prop. Thanks for the help though. I cant wait to get this puppy fired up.
TheCrow is offline Find More Posts by TheCrow
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2005, 03:08 AM
Registered User
Bipe Flier's Avatar
Mission, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2003
401 Posts
Andrew0820 pretty much covered it. Do just as he said and you'll be fine. One thing I'd like to add is that a 1/2A starter will make life a lot easier.
Bipe Flier is offline Find More Posts by Bipe Flier
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2005, 12:27 AM
Let the good times roll
Southern California
Joined Jun 2004
260 Posts
Alright I finally got my kit and I have started the fuselage. My hardware bag somehow mysteriously disappeared last night and so it's left me at a stand still. Anyway, when I get the extra time I will definately make a little motor test stand and get that norvel fired up. Looks like I will be sticking to the chicken stick as my budget wont allow a fancy starter.

P.S.

Just out of curiosity, how does an electric starter warp the crank? Is it the force you need to apply pushing the starter onto the engine? Thanks for all the help.
TheCrow is offline Find More Posts by TheCrow
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2005, 01:54 AM
Registered User
Bipe Flier's Avatar
Mission, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2003
401 Posts
I doubt that you could ever warp the crank with an electric starter. You can, however, break the con-rod if there is a hydraulic lock and you are using a standard starter. A 1/2A starter has much less torque than a .40 size starter and is much less likely to damage the engine. You should always turn the engine by hand after you have primed it, but before you start it to make sure that there isn't a hydraulic lock. If the engine is locked and you try to start it, even with a chicken stick, you risk damaging it.
Bipe Flier is offline Find More Posts by Bipe Flier
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2005, 02:35 AM
VidViper
roger ingersoll's Avatar
western Oregon
Joined Feb 2005
65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCrow
Just out of curiosity, how does an electric starter warp the crank? Is it the force you need to apply pushing the starter onto the engine? Thanks for all the help.
If the crank gets flooded with fuel and there's a bubble in there, the compression stroke will lock it up.

Any excessive force at this point can damage the engine.

I've also heard of folks warping their crank with a chicken stick, because of a tendency to strike, rather than to flip the prop.

If you're afraid of injury, wear a glove. The guys at the club here have these neat two-finger leather things, with tongues that extend down onto their palms. I think they're home-made.

I have a nice "gripper" type cotton glove, with extra hot-glue "welded" onto it. Just seems like you've got more control when you use your fingers, and your body has a natural tendency to "get out of harm's way."

I'll again suggest that little starter spring for your new norvel engine. This makes things SO much easier/faster, since it creates a double and even triple flip, and is about as safe as it gets. Even my LHS, with it's way generous markup, only charges 3 bux. Cheap at twice the price, for how easy they make starting an engine.

Remember to shoot the juice to this guy. If you use those kwik-klip thingies, have a spare, as they don't last for spit. A power panel/glow-heater is god's own gift for a task like this. All my starting woes seemed to vanish when I copped a power panel and $17 wheelchair batt.

Thanx, for keeping us up to date.
roger ingersoll is offline Find More Posts by roger ingersoll
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2005, 01:20 PM
Registered User
Western KY
Joined Sep 2003
1,599 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipe Flier
You should always turn the engine by hand after you have primed it, but before you start it to make sure that there isn't a hydraulic lock. If the engine is locked and you try to start it, even with a chicken stick, you risk damaging it.
This is very true.

The 1/2A starters Bipe Flier mentioned can make starting much, much easier. While they have a lower torque, they will usually have a slightly higher spin rate. If you can't afford a starter, Bipe Flier has one he built from available parts -- perhaps he can post a picture of it.

The NORVELs ship with a drive gasket -- their parts nomenclature is a little misleading since this is not a seal, but rather a steel washer that fits over the crankshaft between the nose of the crankcase and the prop thrust washer. One function is to keep the aluminum thrust washer from galling on the nose of the crankcase when using a starter. Since a starter forces the crank back into the case, adding a drop of light oil or several drops of fuel will help lube the steel washer and reduce wear while cranking.
Andrew0820 is offline Find More Posts by Andrew0820
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2005, 09:17 PM
Pickin' an a Flyin'
Wufnu's Avatar
United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Apr 2004
1,917 Posts
I second the 1/2a starter, they're easily worth their weight in gold.

Breakin for me was easy, I just ran it four or five times (2oz tank) with a 5x3 prop. This was all done by hand, then twice more with 5x3 with the muffler on. After that, 6x2 (or 6x3, I can't remember) to run it with the flying prop.

Little motor's a real beaute.
Wufnu is offline Find More Posts by Wufnu
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2005, 01:27 AM
Registered User
Bipe Flier's Avatar
Mission, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2003
401 Posts
Here's a link to the thread on my home made starter. It is for .010 and .020 engines, so it doesn't have enough power to turn over an .049, but you could do the same thing with a buggy motor.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...mpage_1/tm.htm
Bipe Flier is offline Find More Posts by Bipe Flier
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2005, 01:44 AM
Registered User
Bipe Flier's Avatar
Mission, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2003
401 Posts
Here's a link to a thread on making a 1/2A starter.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...mpage_1/tm.htm
Bipe Flier is offline Find More Posts by Bipe Flier
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2005, 11:09 PM
Let the good times roll
Southern California
Joined Jun 2004
260 Posts
Has anybody tried making one using a cordless power screwdriver/drill?
TheCrow is offline Find More Posts by TheCrow
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2005, 11:52 PM
Registered User
Bipe Flier's Avatar
Mission, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2003
401 Posts
It should work.
Bipe Flier is offline Find More Posts by Bipe Flier
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2005, 08:02 AM
DIY user
JCaste's Avatar
Barcelona, Spain
Joined Jul 2004
506 Posts
I have used Tornado fuel @ 5% in my .40 FX without problems, which suposedly contains only synthetic oil. Has anyone tried it on a BigMig 0.074? Should it be too diferent if I ran the Norvel with synthetic only?
JCaste is offline Find More Posts by JCaste
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools