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Old Jan 22, 2016, 03:59 PM
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perfectly calm air, just did another flight. My white wire mod produced a small improvement in performance, so that's great. All the same, I'd like just that little bit more oomph. Pre-mod I was able to high alpha to about 30 degrees for level flight. Post-mod I can high alpha to about 50 or 60 degrees max for level flight. Either way hovering involves a slow sinking motion. Yes, I have cf enforments, so maybe it's time to build a fresh body, go for the single servo ailerons, just ditch and build from scratch with an emphasis on light weight.
I'm not willing to sink the money into this for a brushless motor. I'd rather put such funds toward moving on to a more powerful micro 3D trainer like a crack yak. My CF reinforcements are like training wheels: I don't need them anymore because I now so rarely crash, but I do need improved performance to expand my 3D skills further.
I wish I could dial up the voltage on the batteries just that extra bit. It wouldn't matter if that meant shorter flight times.
She still flies alright, otherwise.

My plane currently weighs 36g without batteries. Eflite lists it as 36.5g flying weight, with batteries. So I'm clearly overweight by that of the 45c cells, which weigh about 5 grams. A rebuild should at least be able to shave those last few grams off.

Thoughts anyone?
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Old Jan 23, 2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyathi View Post
perfectly calm air, just did another flight. My white wire mod produced a small improvement in performance, so that's great. All the same, I'd like just that little bit more oomph. Pre-mod I was able to high alpha to about 30 degrees for level flight. Post-mod I can high alpha to about 50 or 60 degrees max for level flight. Either way hovering involves a slow sinking motion. Yes, I have cf enforments, so maybe it's time to build a fresh body, go for the single servo ailerons, just ditch and build from scratch with an emphasis on light weight.
I'm not willing to sink the money into this for a brushless motor. I'd rather put such funds toward moving on to a more powerful micro 3D trainer like a crack yak. My CF reinforcements are like training wheels: I don't need them anymore because I now so rarely crash, but I do need improved performance to expand my 3D skills further.
I wish I could dial up the voltage on the batteries just that extra bit. It wouldn't matter if that meant shorter flight times.
She still flies alright, otherwise.

My plane currently weighs 36g without batteries. Eflite lists it as 36.5g flying weight, with batteries. So I'm clearly overweight by that of the 45c cells, which weigh about 5 grams. A rebuild should at least be able to shave those last few grams off.

Thoughts anyone?
Yeah you're definitely low on power. It should hover no problem and be able to pull out vertically. I wonder if the prop has flattened out or you have some resistance in the power system. Could also be altitude - I think 5000 feet would be enough to make it not hover too well. I know when I moved here from Denver, it was a big difference. The old Extra hovered fine there though, and it had a less powerful motor. Hard to say why, but you definitely should have more power than what you describe.
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Old Jan 23, 2016, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Yeah you're definitely low on power. It should hover no problem and be able to pull out vertically. I wonder if the prop has flattened out or you have some resistance in the power system. Could also be altitude - I think 5000 feet would be enough to make it not hover too well. I know when I moved here from Denver, it was a big difference. The old Extra hovered fine there though, and it had a less powerful motor. Hard to say why, but you definitely should have more power than what you describe.
Just to be clear, would you say that the issue is more about being underpowered, and not so much about being overweight?
I'm just above sea level, (by just a few meters in this city) so it isn't altitude.
Now how would a prop "flatten"? But I hadn't considered that, I may benefit from a slightly larger / steeper prop.
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 06:21 PM
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How do I delete a post?
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by iadamz View Post
The manual is completely confusing.

The three values are +100%, 0, -100%. Using the Travel Adjust feature of your radio for the gear channel.

+100% is general flight
0 is standard AS3X
-100% is hover assist.

"It is easy to recognise hover assist. Turn on everything, point the nose of the plane skyward and then give significant throttle, I use about 1/2. Slowly move the plane toward level and the elevator will deflect and stay deflected till you return to original position. Yaw the plane and rudder will deflect and stay deflected till you return to starting position. Roll the plane and ailerons deflect and stay deflected till you return to starting position". When you are in standard AS3X, the surfaces do not stay deflected when doing the above motions. They behave like normal AS3X and will simply "jitter", returning to the neutral position.

I would suggest only flying in standard AS3X mode. Setting the travel limits to 0 on the gear channel. You probably have a two position switch on your radio so you can flick the switch and also set it to 0

I use hover mode only when in my living room. Sometimes I need a break from flying and instead of landing I'll turn on hover mode to get a breather. So on my radio I have gear channel set to 0 travel adjust and with a flick of a switch I'm in -100% travel adjust or hover mode.

Seriously the other modes are interesting to see what the software is capable of, but in my opinion are unflyable. Do not fly around in hover assist. If anyone is new to this plane, I would suggest simply 0 and 0 on travel adjust Gear channel
Just want to say thanks for this, now I understand why my AS3Extra fly's so badly, I had it stuck in the General Flight mode!
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 10:09 PM
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How do I delete a post?
You can't delete a post - you can blank it out by editing it though...
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 08:57 PM
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You can't delete a post - you can blank it out by editing it though...
Hmmm?

EDIT: I'll be danged. Didn't know that.
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Old Feb 06, 2016, 09:09 PM
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I'd like to thank PESP for the advice.

He prevented me from wasting 40USD on the brushless conversion.

The wire upgrade as described worked...I was very surprised at the performance gain.

I did the following.

Disconnect the motor power connector from the board.

Cut both motor wires about 1/2 in from the motor.

Unsoldered both original wires from the connector that was attached to the motor output on the board.

Soldered a new larger black wire to the motor output connector and soldered the other end of the black wire to the motor. After this portion of the mod I installed the motor plug to the main board. Just make sure the black wire goes into the right spot...

Next I cut the white wire from the board to the batter connector about 1in from the connector. I soldered a larger wire between the white motor lead and the battery input wires.

From there use some light clear tape to hold any loose wires down and your ready to rock.

This took about about 15mins to do but I would not recommend doing this to someone who is not really confident in soldering and dealing with very small delicate components...

I am not sure of the wire gauge I used but it was at least 24awg.

Batteries that had good punch before had quite a bit more usable power.

Batteries that wouldn't even fly this plane have enough juice for hovering...

Oh and weight after mod was 37.5g with 150mah 45c pack.

I do not use the SFG's and I removed the foam plates from the wheels. I reinforced a few spots on the front of the plane with some foam from a meat tray (new and clean from the butcher) and have quite a few repair spots that are held together with 3m super 77.
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Old Feb 07, 2016, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Eco8gator View Post

...I did the following...
Thanks for the clear description. It's definitely not what I did, I see I got the white wire mod wrong. I just added thicker wire between engine and plug.

It sounds very promising. I'll have to take another look at this when I get the chance. But I see that it's also the case that I'm about 6g overweight due to my slightly overzealous modifications. Which is doubly promising, because it means there are two directions I can go in improving the situation.
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Old Feb 07, 2016, 07:16 AM
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White Wire Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyathi View Post
Thanks for the clear description. It's definitely not what I did, I see I got the white wire mod wrong. I just added thicker wire between engine and plug.

It sounds very promising. I'll have to take another look at this when I get the chance. But I see that it's also the case that I'm about 6g overweight due to my slightly overzealous modifications. Which is doubly promising, because it means there are two directions I can go in improving the situation.
If you go back to page 123 on post 1834 I give some results from testing with the White wire mod. That was two years ago. Since then I have been using the white wire mod and the Micro Moter Warehouse -15 motors to maximize the performance of several of the 1S planes.
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Old Feb 07, 2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyathi View Post
Thanks for the clear description. It's definitely not what I did, I see I got the white wire mod wrong. I just added thicker wire between engine and plug.

It sounds very promising. I'll have to take another look at this when I get the chance. But I see that it's also the case that I'm about 6g overweight due to my slightly overzealous modifications. Which is doubly promising, because it means there are two directions I can go in improving the situation.
The mod you described sounds right... What I did included an additional suggestion (black wire replacement) to further reduce the resistance in the leads.

I did not know there were alternate brushed motor and prop options, I may try thone after I burn up this motor.
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Old Feb 07, 2016, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyathi View Post
Thanks for the clear description. It's definitely not what I did, I see I got the white wire mod wrong. I just added thicker wire between engine and plug.
Same here. Actually, anytime I replace the motor on any of the Horizon um planes.
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