SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Thread Tools
Old Aug 22, 2015, 07:31 PM
sixty9mustang is offline
Find More Posts by sixty9mustang
Surf's up!!
sixty9mustang's Avatar
United States, Mt, East Helena
Joined Oct 2005
1,521 Posts
Saturday Scores (day 1)

Helena 2 Day Contest, day 1 (Saturday). 7 rounds of challenging conditions. The smoke blew out over night and the temps dropped, but what a beautiful day here in Helena, Mt. Looking forward to much of the same on day 2.


Chip
sixty9mustang is offline Find More Posts by sixty9mustang
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 23, 2015, 09:59 PM
sixty9mustang is offline
Find More Posts by sixty9mustang
Surf's up!!
sixty9mustang's Avatar
United States, Mt, East Helena
Joined Oct 2005
1,521 Posts
Pics!!!

Pictures are posting on the Montana ALES 2 Day contest thread for those interested.




http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=80


Chip
sixty9mustang is offline Find More Posts by sixty9mustang
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 25, 2015, 03:12 PM
olythom is offline
Find More Posts by olythom
Registered User
United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Oct 2009
400 Posts
The 2015 Montana event was great fun with a bunch of really good people. Saturday's flying conditions and scenery were absolutely top-notch. What a beautiful place to fly! Sunday's conditions were good but smoky skies from all the wildfires in the Great Northwest hampered visibility, blocking out some of the magnificent ambience.

Curtis, Rod, and the rest of the Helena group did a great job and I think all the competitors had a terrific weekend - I know the Olympia gang did. It was very nice to finally meet all those guys (and that chick) that we've known online.

Congrats to Larry for the win on Saturday along with the weekend overall. And.... Congrats to Curtis for the win on Sunday.
Can't wait for next year!
>Thom
olythom is offline Find More Posts by olythom
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 07:40 AM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
Graduated Runway

I'm proposing a rules change to the AMA ALES Graduated Runway landing so that the runway shape is no longer a rectangle but has semi-circular arcs to each end. Since folks have flown the runway landing I would appreciate comments on my wording of the rules change.

Here's the original as written:

OPTION 3 – Graduated Runway
1. The runway is defined by a center line 15
meters long and as closely aligned with the wind
as practical and extends 2.5 meters either side of
this center line.
2. A model which comes to rest with its nose
beyond the ends of the center line or more than
2.5 meters to the side of the center line receives 0
points.
3. A model which comes to rest within the
graduated runway will receive a maximum of 50
points, with a loss of 5 points per 1/4 meter away
from the center line as measured from the nose
of the model to the centerline of the runway.
Recommendation: A 2.5 meter long piece of ”
or ” diameter plastic pipe (PVC) marked in 25
centimeter increments is a simple and effective
method of obtaining landing scores with this
option.

Here is my proposed change.
I've added to the end of Section 1 and Section 2 above will be deleted entirely and Section 3 will now become 2. and will read as written below.

OPTION 3 – Graduated Runway
1. The runway is defined by a center line 15
meters long and as closely aligned with the wind
as practical and extends 2.5 meters either side of
this center line and 2.5 meters in a semi-circle on
each end of the 15m centerline

2. “A model which comes to rest within the graduated runway
will receive a maximum of 50 points, with a loss of 5 points
per 1/4 meter away from the center line or each end of the
15m centerline in a semi-circular arc as measured from the
nose of the model to the centerline of the runway.”
Recommendation: A 2.5 meter long piece of ”
or ” diameter plastic pipe (PVC) marked in 25
centimeter increments is a simple and effective
method of obtaining landing scores with this
option.

This will eliminate the subjectivity of determining the perpendicular ends of the runway and whether the model is past the end of the runway. The current measuring device can be used for the entire runway.

Thanks
Curtis
Montana
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 08:06 AM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
If I have written the text properly this is what the mind should be seeing.
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 09:56 AM
hawkesail is offline
Find More Posts by hawkesail
Registered User
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Aug 2012
38 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Suter View Post
If I have written the text properly this is what the mind should be seeing.
Curtis, I like it, we had several landings with the nose just outside the ends of the line with the fus. still inside producing a "0". This would give a more realistic all around scoring result.

Dean
hawkesail is offline Find More Posts by hawkesail
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 09:58 AM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkesail View Post
Curtis, I like it, we had several landings with the nose just outside the ends of the line with the fus. still inside producing a "0". This would give a more realistic all around scoring result.

Dean
Thanks Dean. And I think easier to measure, it's either in or out of the tape and not a visual indication if it's beyond the perpendicular line.
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 10:50 AM
hawkesail is offline
Find More Posts by hawkesail
Registered User
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Aug 2012
38 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Suter View Post
Thanks Dean. And I think easier to measure, it's either in or out of the tape and not a visual indication if it's beyond the perpendicular line.
Yes, it would end the guessing and hair splitting!
hawkesail is offline Find More Posts by hawkesail
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:01 AM
botulism is offline
Find More Posts by botulism
Seeker of Thermals
botulism's Avatar
United States, MT, Kalispell
Joined Aug 2004
747 Posts
One could argue that you could also eliminate most of the ambiguity in measurement by painting full length 5m. perpendicular lines on the end of the runway as well. These would have to be measured and painted accurately before the contest. Although I would have benefited at least one flight from the proposed rule change, personally I would say I would be against it.

I think (although I could be wrong) that most people who missed landings overshot the end of the runway, rather than landed short. And, I think those who DID land long (but were on the centerline) were shooting for the 'spot' on the end of the runway. That's the wrong way to do it. You have 15 meters of runway to work with, you should be aiming for a spot in the dead center of that 15 meter center line. I think it's just an unfamiliarity problem that could be averted if it were thought out properly. But.... I could be wrong on that assumption.

--
Greg

BTW, even though I would be against it, I think your proposal is worded quite well and clearly also.
botulism is offline Find More Posts by botulism
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:12 AM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by botulism View Post

BTW, even though I would be against it, I think your proposal is worded quite well and clearly also.
Thanks Greg!
I am being told they round out the ends in Spokane TD contests as per my proposal.
I did see a lot of dorking and was surprised but the spinner/motor/gearbox/firewall must be up to the task. Folks can also run down the line for a few seconds to get their exact time too. I've done that and almost went past the line! That would have been bad trying to gain a couple seconds!

Curtis
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 12:24 PM
dbeach is offline
Find More Posts by dbeach
Registered User
dbeach's Avatar
Amherst, NH
Joined Apr 2005
460 Posts
I'm fine with the proposal. I can see where it would greatly reduce the subjectivity of landings near the end of the runway.

However, from a rules perspective, it might be advisable to keep the current rule and add an Option 4 - Oval Runway.

Or perhaps submit your rules change as:

Option 3A - Rectangular Runway
...
Option 3B - Oval Runway

David
dbeach is offline Find More Posts by dbeach
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 12:34 PM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbeach View Post
I'm fine with the proposal. I can see where it would greatly reduce the subjectivity of landings near the end of the runway.

However, from a rules perspective, it might be advisable to keep the current rule and add an Option 4 - Oval Runway.

Or perhaps submit your rules change as:

Option 3A - Rectangular Runway
...
Option 3B - Oval Runway

David
Great idea David! I'll submit as Option 4 - Oval Runway

I'd say it'd have a better chance of passing also. Plus the folks that would possibly be opposed to it will be good with it too.

Thanks so much
Curtis
Montana
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 12:49 PM
FredM is offline
Find More Posts by FredM
powered by caffine
FredM's Avatar
Akron, New York
Joined May 2004
1,026 Posts
Curtis
Personally I liked the graduated runway. I can see this being popular at the club level where people flying Radians and such,as well as less experienced pilots , can achieve landing points more readily giving them landing confidence. The landing tape is a far more challenging, in my opinion, to achieve higher point landings. It was very interesting to use the runway and I am glad both options are available!
FredM is offline Find More Posts by FredM
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 06:16 PM
Curtis Suter is offline
Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
6,357 Posts
The LSF eSAP program has their first Level V....

Read here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5#post32570372
Curtis Suter is offline Find More Posts by Curtis Suter
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 31, 2015, 06:27 PM
awilmunder is offline
Find More Posts by awilmunder
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
523 Posts
We'll be doing runway landings at SVSS for our September ALES and I had been wondering how we would measure the ends. This approach would be a welcome addition. Another option would be to decrease the length from 15 meters to 10 so you could use existing 10-meter tapes for the center line and still have 5 meters on the rounded ends.
awilmunder is offline Find More Posts by awilmunder
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest Mid-winter ales contest dong727 Sailplane Events 37 Feb 29, 2012 11:26 AM
Discussion ALES Launch Camber Curtis Suter Electric Sailplanes 5 May 24, 2011 07:34 PM
Discussion Fun With ALES Full Throttle Yoke Failure Paul Naton Electric Sailplanes 6 May 02, 2011 07:07 AM
Discussion Sloping in Montana Freedom Flyer South Bay Soaring Society 1 Apr 25, 2011 03:36 AM
Discussion Ales knormang Sailplane Talk 3 Mar 05, 2011 08:16 AM