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Old Aug 24, 2014, 10:08 PM
LSF - IV
Hostage-46's Avatar
United States, TX, Highland Village
Joined Jan 2003
3,156 Posts
It took a few months. Working on the 3.5 now
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 06:29 AM
dare to thermal
Mannheim, Germany
Joined May 2004
584 Posts
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Originally Posted by Hostage-46 View Post
It took a few months. ...
+1

After my first - very enthusiastic - feedback about the 4M X2, i have to admitt that flying the X2 and find the right setup isnīt that easy. My 4M X2 is a St version with standard fuselage and tail. The drawback of being more slippery is the loss of max CL. I really have problems in very light air compared to the X1 or even a Shadow. To find a good thermal setting is not easy too - more than 3mm flaps down is too much. But if the air is better than f "very light" itīs getting better. And it seems to me that the X2 dosnīt like turbulent air. Excellent is the L/D at higher speeds and the energy retention.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:38 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2007
367 Posts
Are you serious? I have just spent 6 hours of flight time on a new X2 and the wing is very easy to setup, works light air like magic, and handles turbulent air nicely.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:19 AM
Always more to Xplore
SoaringDude's Avatar
near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
808 Posts
Honest RCG comments from experienced X1 pilots have made it clear to me the X2 airfoil is not a "universal win" but rather a fairly good compromise (as are all airfoils). I have been one of the holdouts still flying X1 planes because I feel so dialed in with that airfoil. Recently I acquired a super light X1 and so far am darned happy with it too.

I'm guessing that the setup for the X2 may be a little tricky if you're trying to get that X1 floaty feel--which may not be possible anyway. I'm just glad you can still get whichever airfoil you like best since the X as an overall product line is superb.

Chris B.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:01 AM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
webbsolution's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
2,967 Posts
I think you can get the X2 to float as well as the X1 you just have to be ready to change camber faster -

I just did a 1 mile and return with my x-2 3.8 - would have been 1.25 but the black unpainted wing is not visible enough in the haze.. .Anyways - an x-2 at 2-3 mm of camber will be really close to the X-1 in terms of speed and float factor.

However there is no replacing being familiar with a model.

Case in point I took two new models to the WC and I had about 4 hours on each airfoil - There was nothing wrong with the airfoils at all - both awesome models - but not being familiar with the fine aspects of each hurt me.

So splitting hairs between a foil you know like the back of your hand and something new - even an iteration of what you know - thats not even a contest -
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 01:16 PM
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Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
2,421 Posts
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Originally Posted by webbsolution View Post
I think you can get the X2 to float as well as the X1 you just have to be ready to change camber faster -
Yes. But subjectively the two airfoils feel different in low speeds. X1 has softer stall behavior and feels more stable at low airspeeds.

I prefer flying X1 wing in conditions when there is no need to fly fast.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 05:51 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
50 Posts
I have been extremely happy with the X2's. But in saying that I have never flown an X1.

But considering how the X2 airfoil handles the wind and runs so well, and also goes up nicely in light lift, its min sink capability is pretty good considering.

For me the ideal all round plane without too much compromise in any area. I can get it to hang really well but as mentioned I have not had an X1 to give any comparison or reference point. I base my comparison on other planes I have had such as the Maxa and Pike Perfection.
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Last edited by Neil Jones; Aug 26, 2014 at 06:09 AM.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 07:31 AM
Marco Generali - italsoaring
snoze88's Avatar
Cremona, Italy
Joined Nov 2010
184 Posts
I've flown both x2 and x1 at the last WC
I think that both the planes are fantastic but in different conditions.

In light and "not well defined" conditions I would prefer to fly with the x1; you don't need to hit the tight core of the thermal. You just have to get in the right area and then "park" there, with some flaps out and doing some wide circles.
The pilot workload is way less than with the x2

With variable conditions or strong thermals I prefer to fly with the x2; you have to make tighter circles, but when you get to 40/50° of bank it starts to climb way faster than an x1

I've flown with both of them a couple of weeks ago; there were some random very tight bubbles. In that condition it was very hard to climb with the x1, while with the x2 (which was 300g heavier) I could get it done quite easy


That said, the x2 still have some limits in strong wind, I hope that the next mods will help
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 08:23 AM
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Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
2,421 Posts
One point is that one can fly X1 with slightly higher wing loading than X2. This gives more inertia and generally smoother handling to the X1. No wonder it is less pilot workload than X2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoze88 View Post
That said, the x2 still have some limits in strong wind, I hope that the next mods will help
If we do not count Egida which is really an extreme design, X2 is aerodynamically the best strong wind F3J plane I have flown. Especially so with the X3 fuse. There is just the problem with structures... We tend to buy our Xplorers with laminations that give 1700-1800g AUW for the 3.8m size. And then we call it an allround plane!!?? Actually it is just in the limit of being just a light to medium weight plane. Every time you launch that 1750g plane into 10m/s+ wind, you are actually over stressing it.

I would not mind to have a 2100-2200g Xplorer for strong wind. The only problem with that would be the precious allround performance...
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 08:54 AM
Marco Generali - italsoaring
snoze88's Avatar
Cremona, Italy
Joined Nov 2010
184 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomo View Post
One point is that one can fly X1 with slightly higher wing loading than X2. This gives more inertia and generally smoother handling to the X1. No wonder it is less pilot workload than X2.



If we do not count Egida which is really an extreme design, X2 is aerodynamically the best strong wind F3J plane I have flown. Especially so with the X3 fuse. There is just the problem with structures... We tend to buy our Xplorers with laminations that give 1700-1800g AUW for the 3.8m size. And then we call it an allround plane!!?? Actually it is just in the limit of being just a light to medium weight plane. Every time you launch that 1750g plane into 10m/s+ wind, you are actually over stressing it.

I would not mind to have a 2100-2200g Xplorer for strong wind. The only problem with that would be the precious allround performance...
I think that at the moment the perfection fly better at windspeed from 8 m/s up.
The x2 should fly with an higher wing loading than the pike and still it won't cover as much distance as samba's plane

[nan knows that, I've talked about it with them at the wc]

For strong wind one should go for a triple carbon xplorer; I get one of those plane for a friend at the WC and the AUW was around 2100g

My actual windy plane is an old 1900g standard x2 (a little bit stronger than actual standard planes) but when launching at 10/12 m/s it's very close to its limit.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 11:12 AM
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Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
2,421 Posts
I have not flown Perfection

My thinking is that there is nothing special in strong wind flying. Actually aerodynamic finesses or cordinated turns matter much more in low wind conditions. In wind one just needs have strong enough plane, high enough wing loading and good enough control to survive the possible turbulence. Then launch high and do the right tactical decisions.

X2 3.5/3.8 seems to fall well enough to these criteria - provided it is strong enough lamination wing, fuse and tail. Triple carbon might be for my liking... Maybe in 3.5m size because it can be expected to launch a little higher... Until now I have not really a successor for my old 2.45kg Aspire. I tried the Egida - it flies really well but as a whole it is spoiled with some non-functional design decisions.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 11:48 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoze88 View Post
I think that at the moment the perfection fly better at windspeed from 8 m/s up.
The x2 should fly with an higher wing loading than the pike and still it won't cover as much distance as samba's plane

[nan knows that, I've talked about it with them at the wc]

For strong wind one should go for a triple carbon xplorer; I get one of those plane for a friend at the WC and the AUW was around 2100g

My actual windy plane is an old 1900g standard x2 (a little bit stronger than actual standard planes) but when launching at 10/12 m/s it's very close to its limit.
I have found the X2 better than the Maxa in wind Marco that's for sure. The Perfection is good in wind - I used them in South Africa - but (in my opinion) the X2 is still a better all round plane. Speaking from experience of flying them both.

I don't think there is one single plane out there that is best at everything and I don't think aerodynamically we can expect this from an airframe at the moment.

Personally I think the X2 handles light to moderate winds very well and with its easy handling makes the best all round plane. It is also quite good in wind I have found, but perhaps there is no substitute for an aerodynamically dedicated high wind airframe rather than an aerodynamic all rounder laminated up to make it stiffer? A big outsize F3b plane for example would in my mind be a no compromise high wind machine
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 12:27 PM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
2,421 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Jones View Post
A big outsize F3b plane for example would in my mind be a no compromise high wind machine
We are close to there if you imagine Egida without the tip dihedral (which surely contribute to the nice handling of the plane). I just wish I could redesign some of its peculiarities...
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 01:00 PM
Marco Generali - italsoaring
snoze88's Avatar
Cremona, Italy
Joined Nov 2010
184 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Jones View Post
I have found the X2 better than the Maxa in wind Marco that's for sure. The Perfection is good in wind - I used them in South Africa - but (in my opinion) the X2 is still a better all round plane. Speaking from experience of flying them both.

I don't think there is one single plane out there that is best at everything and I don't think aerodynamically we can expect this from an airframe at the moment.

Personally I think the X2 handles light to moderate winds very well and with its easy handling makes the best all round plane. It is also quite good in wind I have found, but perhaps there is no substitute for an aerodynamically dedicated high wind airframe rather than an aerodynamic all rounder laminated up to make it stiffer? A big outsize F3b plane for example would in my mind be a no compromise high wind machine
I agree, currently the x2 is the most versatile plane on the market.
We had a chance to see that during the first days of the last WC
To me the best setup (that someone has registered at the WC) is to have xplorer for light and "medium" conditions, and a perfection for strong wind
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