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Old Jan 12, 2012, 07:31 AM
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Brian VT's Avatar
United States, VT, Rutland
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by DoomsDay View Post
Also, holding the tx to close to the helicopter can cause it to take longer to initialize. One of my mcx2's does that if I have the tx within a foot of it when I go to initialize it.
Never seen that with mine. Will keep it in mind, though.
I've been setting the heli right next to the tx after connecting the battery. I'd guess it usually takes no more than 5 seconds to initialize.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:07 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,683 Posts
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Originally Posted by Sethiol View Post
I am no expert when it comes to li-po batts, but everything I have read about the mcx2 120mAh batt is even if you can fly that long you shouldnt. As soon as I notice even the most remote loss of power , I shut it down. Thats mostly to conserve thelife of my one and only battery. I also do the 5 minute cool down after flight, 5 minute cool down after taking a charge. But thats just me. Two more minutes of flight per charge isnt worth pre-maturely replacing the batteries or my heli motors.
I guess my take on it is this...

Going on my experience in other non related forums for my various hobbies and interests, I've found that I can't always believe every popular held opinion on particular things without testing and finding out the validity for myself, as long as it isn't dangerous or costly money wise for me to do that. Sometimes people OCD about certain stuff for no good reason or because they are told they should or they are just parroting things they hear and have no real personal experience in the matter... on the other hand, sometimes it is in fact warranted. To me, these little 1s batteries are cheap enough that I'm willing to go against popular opinion to find out certain things about them for myself. Battery technology is not something new to me, I use it extensively in one of my other hobbies so my decisions on how far I will push something are informed ones. I'm not telling anyone they should disregard the popular opinions and do what I do, in fact, if you can't afford the consequences then you probably shouldn't. I just try some things sometimes, report my results and people can do what they want with that information. Having said that, this has been my personal experience with certain things so far...

Running my flights to LVC... I have done this every single flight on my new Scout CX and even newer mCX2. My lipos are still performing the same as day one after the maybe 30 to 40 flights (probably more) I have put on each bird so far... I have 3 lipos total for my Scout so that doesn't mean that many flights on one single lipo. My flight times on that bird are consistently noticeably longer than what others are reporting with that particular battery. Until yesterday, I only had the one stock battery for my recently purchased mCX2, I now have 4 total. I would say I probably put at least 30 flights on that one single lipo that came with it, again, running it to LVC every time, and I'm still getting not just noticeable but rather significantly longer flight times than what others are reporting using not only the same battery but upgraded higher capacity ones. If that battery were to degrade to the point of only getting the length of flights others are reporting it would still be useable and I'd still be happy.

Some say to not run your flights longer than 5 minutes while others are putting 150mAh lipos in their mcx2 to get longer flight times on it which completely flies in the face of the first point. Who do you follow on that one?... I don't know. I'm already strangely getting seemingly abnormal run times from just my stock E-flite 120mAh battery so I'm going for it

Upon receiving my extra new E-flite 120's which I got dirt cheap off ebay I have also been testing the so called 50% break in thing on 2 of them and running the 3rd to LVC right off the bat. They've all gone through 3 or 4 charge cycles now and I've been running all of them today to LVC and getting more or less the same flight times... maybe even a little longer on the one I didn't "break in." I've started logging everything now.

So my thoughts so far are... even if some of these lipos I have (not the new ones I received yesterday) were to completely die tomorrow, I've already gotten an amount of flights out of each heli on them to deem the loss acceptable for the amount of fun I got out of them... even if I had to write off the OEM ones that came with the helis, the cost to replace those locally from my LHS is less than what I spend on a pack of cigarettes or a meal at McDonald's (yes I know both of those will probably kill me)... the 3 new ones I just received cost me $1.79 each.

Motors... mine don't seem to get too hot especially considering the length of flights I'm getting... certainly not hot enough to warp a frame (I can put my lips on them). Maybe I'll eat those words... I don't know... we will see. But I will continue to report my results even if they are negative ones.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:35 AM
Against Helicopter Cruelty
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No49, thank you for that report. As far as my attitude towards Lipos, I'm on the same page you are. Good luck, happy flights.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:44 AM
Team WarpSquad
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@North_of_49:
My thoughts exactly. Very well said.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:13 PM
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Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
I guess my take on it is this...

Going on my experience in other non related forums for my various hobbies and interests, I've found that I can't always believe every popular held opinion on particular things without testing and finding out the validity for myself, as long as it isn't dangerous or costly money wise for me to do that. Sometimes people OCD about certain stuff for no good reason or because they are told they should or they are just parroting things they hear and have no real personal experience in the matter... on the other hand, sometimes it is in fact warranted. To me, these little 1s batteries are cheap enough that I'm willing to go against popular opinion to find out certain things about them for myself. Battery technology is not something new to me, I use it extensively in one of my other hobbies so my decisions on how far I will push something are informed ones. I'm not telling anyone they should disregard the popular opinions and do what I do, in fact, if you can't afford the consequences then you probably shouldn't. I just try some things sometimes, report my results and people can do what they want with that information. Having said that, this has been my personal experience with certain things so far...

Running my flights to LVC... I have done this every single flight on my new Scout CX and even newer mCX2. My lipos are still performing the same as day one after the maybe 30 to 40 flights (probably more) I have put on each bird so far... I have 3 lipos total for my Scout so that doesn't mean that many flights on one single lipo. My flight times on that bird are consistently noticeably longer than what others are reporting with that particular battery. Until yesterday, I only had the one stock battery for my recently purchased mCX2, I now have 4 total. I would say I probably put at least 30 flights on that one single lipo that came with it, again, running it to LVC every time, and I'm still getting not just noticeable but rather significantly longer flight times than what others are reporting using not only the same battery but upgraded higher capacity ones. If that battery were to degrade to the point of only getting the length of flights others are reporting it would still be useable and I'd still be happy.

Some say to not run your flights longer than 5 minutes while others are putting 150mAh lipos in their mcx2 to get longer flight times on it which completely flies in the face of the first point. Who do you follow on that one?... I don't know. I'm already strangely getting seemingly abnormal run times from just my stock E-flite 120mAh battery so I'm going for it

Upon receiving my extra new E-flite 120's which I got dirt cheap off ebay I have also been testing the so called 50% break in thing on 2 of them and running the 3rd to LVC right off the bat. They've all gone through 3 or 4 charge cycles now and I've been running all of them today to LVC and getting more or less the same flight times... maybe even a little longer on the one I didn't "break in." I've started logging everything now.

So my thoughts so far are... even if some of these lipos I have (not the new ones I received yesterday) were to completely die tomorrow, I've already gotten an amount of flights out of each heli on them to deem the loss acceptable for the amount of fun I got out of them... even if I had to write off the OEM ones that came with the helis, the cost to replace those locally from my LHS is less than what I spend on a pack of cigarettes or a meal at McDonald's (yes I know both of those will probably kill me)... the 3 new ones I just received cost me $1.79 each.

Motors... mine don't seem to get too hot especially considering the length of flights I'm getting... certainly not hot enough to warp a frame (I can put my lips on them). Maybe I'll eat those words... I don't know... we will see. But I will continue to report my results even if they are negative ones.
Running the batteries to LVC CAN damage them. It most certainly did on mine when running the msr to lvc. I went from 7 minute flights to barely being able to hold 5 minute flights before they would give up. There are certainly a lot of factors that goes into what will damage them from lvc or a motor running to hot and pulling to much juice. That is not saying that everyone is going to experience these problems. The people that have experienced them and have figured out best flight practices for them are simply trying to help others to not go through what they have went through.

I have an mcx2 that has went through 2 burnt motors in a very short amount of time and I have another that hasn't had any issues and I have a 3rd that I gave to a friend of mine (which was my very first mcx2) and it is still going strong. I have SEVERAL UMX planes and some of them have had no issues and others have had their motors die fairly quickly. It is all about luck of the draw with these little pager type motors.

The point of all this is, there are lots of people who get into this hobby and are on limited budgets and things as simple as a new battery can be a month away for them. Offering guidelines on how long to fly and how long to wait between flights are simply, guidelines.

However, with that said, I also want to mention the other side to it also. You get people who will fly the living crap out of a heli or plane, throw in longer running batteries, fly their aircraft for 15 minutes when the motors wasn't designed to handle flight for that long and then go crying to horizon or their hobby shop that their motors only lasted a week even though they may have just put 30 hours of flight time on it in that short of time.

The guidelines are there to help prevent damage to the heli or the battery and to extend the enjoyment of the aircraft as long as possible. As I have stated before, these motors are not consistent in how long they last, so that really adds to the complexity of the issue.

Heck, I have put 160mah batteries on my champ and had 25 minute flights with it and that was during the winter time when these little batteries can't hold their charge for more than a couple minutes of full throttle. Does that mean that my champ and my battery is the best thing ever made? No, It means I had superior throttle management and was able to glide it well with no power. But I certainly don't expect every champ or battery to be able to do that.

When I first switched to the nano tech batteries I could get 10 minute flights out of my UM mustang and even longer and let me tell you, I abused that fact hard! All my flights on that mustang was at least 10 minutes, about a month or so after using those batteries, my flight time was going down drastically. At the end, my flight time was only about 2 minutes yet I could put those batteries in other planes and they worked fine for good 6-8 minute flights. Those 10+ minute flights took its toll on the motor and that was only about 3-5 flights once a week.

All I am saying is, just because your not seeing these issues, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:32 PM
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San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,338 Posts
I find that the some batteries aren't very good new as others of the same brand. I noticed this when I started testing out batteries now that I can hook up my charger to my computer to monitor it's charge/discharge.

I have seen new nanotechs where some were really bad, and others were decent. So I can understand why some people would have bad experiences with one brand...only to have someone else with the complete opposite experience.

Also, I am finding that some 1s LiPo doesn't last as many cycle as others. Same brand or not. It's not an exact science.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
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Doomsday..it is futile. I went down in flames on another thread trying to learn people of the importance of proper lipo care.

You know what I say...Patience Grasshoppers...patience. It's just a matter of time before your batteries are junk

And as Gump says....."That's all I have to say about that."

Mike.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryoon View Post
I find that the some batteries aren't very good new as others of the same brand. I noticed this when I started testing out batteries now that I can hook up my charger to my computer to monitor it's charge/discharge.

I have seen new nanotechs where some were really bad, and others were decent. So I can understand why some people would have bad experiences with one brand...only to have someone else with the complete opposite experience.

Also, I am finding that some 1s LiPo doesn't last as many cycle as others. Same brand or not. It's not an exact science.
Thats part of what I was talking about. I have over 30 nano techs and all of them are still going strong. Even my original ones that I abused the living crap out of a couple years ago still have good flight times. Not as much as they did before, but still get over 5minutes on them. That is the same issue with these motors. Some are good, some are bad and some are out right crappy. Thats one of the reasons I post my issues and guidelines, so others can have an enjoyable experience and understand what issues may crop up.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
Doomsday..it is futile. I went down in flames on another thread trying to learn people of the importance of proper lipo care.

You know what I say...Patience Grasshoppers...patience. It's just a matter of time before your batteries are junk

And as Gump says....."That's all I have to say about that."

Mike.
I agree but my arguments are really more for the newbies. While these little 120mah batteries dont cost a lot, if they get into bigger stuff, those batteries do and if they take the same approach to those batteries, at worst they are going to end up with a pile of burnt aircraft due to the lipo venting and at best, they will be buying new batteries because they wont hold a charge. So if they don't want to take the warnings and advice, at least we can always say, Told ya so
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
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Brian VT's Avatar
United States, VT, Rutland
Joined Dec 2011
536 Posts
Help with the fast left turn wobble ?
I trimmed my throttle to where it would just start to turn the rotors when off. Then I backed it off 2 clicks. My theory was that I would get more throttle on the top end. It seems to have alleviated much of the wobble because now I can give it more throttle when doing FF left turns.
It will still wig out and do the death spiral if you do much more than a hard 180, but it seems better to me.
Try it and let me know. Maybe it's just something else I'm doing different that I'm not aware of.
BTW, I'm running "fast" mode. I really haven't been able to get it to wobble/spiral much in "slow" mode.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:49 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,683 Posts
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Originally Posted by DoomsDay View Post
snip
...

All I am saying is, just because your not seeing these issues, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Yup, I understand all that and made it perfectly clear I just want to see what my own experience with this will be and that I'm not recommending my practices to anyone... and will report my findings as time goes on whether they are positive or negative. And I did say just because I haven't experienced anything negative yet doesn't mean it's not coming... but also that I have at this point already got what I personally consider to be an acceptable amount of flights out of my lipos compared to what they cost me if they were to go south on me from this point on.

I want to paraphrase something I said and make it clear that I'm not suggesting people here in this forum are OCD'ing about the lipo maintenance for no good reason, but that excessive OCDing about things that aren't always universally true in other forums I spend time in is what motivated ME to put certain things to the test here in this one... to be clear, I am aware of the consequences others have experienced, and I'm also willing to accept those consequences should I eventually experience them myself to satisfy my curiosity... I'm not suggesting someone else should be willing to accept them too.

Again, some people's reported negative experiences are obviously valid ones and it would be wise for others to take those into consideration... and I'm in no way trying to tell anyone they should disregard that or that they should follow my practices if they aren't willing to accept the possible negative results... that isn't the purpose of my posting my experiences so far.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
Gig 'Em!
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United States, TX, College Station
Joined Nov 2010
647 Posts
I got my mCX2 today though a trade! Pretty fun little heli! I'm charging the NiMH batteries that go into my LiPo charger so I can fly some more
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 07:06 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by TexasAggie View Post
I got my mCX2 today though a trade! Pretty fun little heli! I'm charging the NiMH batteries that go into my LiPo charger so I can fly some more
Hmmm..you'll have to let us know how that works out. The lady at the LHS who sold me my mCX2 told me that rechargeables don't have the voltage to properly charge the lipo. I bought the 6V eflite adaptor from them so that I wouldn't have to burn batteries to charge my batteries... lol
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 07:08 PM
Gig 'Em!
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United States, TX, College Station
Joined Nov 2010
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I've used them before with my Corsair (before I traded it). It probably extends the charging time, but I didn't notice any problems. I can probably find a random AC adapter next time I go home.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 07:26 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by Brian VT View Post
Help with the fast left turn wobble ?
I trimmed my throttle to where it would just start to turn the rotors when off. Then I backed it off 2 clicks. My theory was that I would get more throttle on the top end. It seems to have alleviated much of the wobble because now I can give it more throttle when doing FF left turns.
It will still wig out and do the death spiral if you do much more than a hard 180, but it seems better to me.
Try it and let me know. Maybe it's just something else I'm doing different that I'm not aware of.
BTW, I'm running "fast" mode. I really haven't been able to get it to wobble/spiral much in "slow" mode.
Brian, I get the left turn wobble on both my Scout and mCX2 no matter what the forward speed is. In slow gentle left turns it's a slight wobble or rocking (more so on the mcx2, not so much on the Scout)... in faster harder left turns it will also involve a downward plunge at the end of it. The wobble itself doesn't surprise me though and to me it actually seems logical and inevitable on a coaxial design. On right rudder input the top rotor gets the juice, and since the flybar is attached to it the flybar still performs its job of stabilization. But on left rudder input the bottom rotor gets the juice while the top rotor powers down... even completely off if you push the stick far enough (you can even observe this intended operation by testing on the ground or table with the skids held in place) therefore the attached flybar also stops spinning and doing its job of stabilization. I haven't figured out the actual "plunge" component of it though... but I can see that it involves faster speed... something is causing a stall in lift. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong on this.
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