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Old Mar 08, 2015, 02:37 PM
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Possibilty? Or impossibility? -Beginner 3D Bipe

So, I've been really wanting a sporty, sleek plane since I was like 10 years old, and now that I have some experience with 4 channel flight (tried to do an outside loop with a sport cub S if it explains my boredom, my prop shaft was very angry with me afterwards!) I wonder if that dream is possible soon.

28" wingspan (tested one wing already, INSANE lift when swinging it with hand.)

my goal.
-Achieve ability to take off and land on grass during 5+mph gusts
-Ability to modify it easily, given I would know the entire construction.
-Ability to fly slowly in a backyard or normally at a park
-Ability to learn 3D at a low cost.

Obviously, if this sounds stupid, do not be afraid to say so, ambition has been my killer before. If this would not work, I'd like a clue as to what might suit me. I also have paper plans if what you see looks good and you want to try it,
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 03:27 PM
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That "looks about right" to me. Your sketchup skills are showing too!

I like the tundra tires, looks a lot like most of my planes for flying off grass. They will add drag, and may affect the handling some, but are worth it if you are on grass.

On the cabanes, I would probably do two instead of one in the center, a bit stronger connection, but that's just me, may well not be needed.
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 04:38 PM
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That is a nice looking bipe. The areas look about right. Agree with Springer, you may want to double the cabane and quite possibly rake it back in the opposite direction. The reason for this is to keep as much vertical area as possible behind the CG.

Keeping it light will be key for 3D ability or a well matched power system. Depending on the size you have here, roll outs on landings are very short for light models, and consequently so are the take offs. The big tires might be overkill.

Looking forward to watching your progress.

Keep up the good work,
Ken
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 08:44 PM
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If you are trying to get into 3d od suggest making leadfeathers yak.. easy and cheap to build and performs beautifully!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964237
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 09:10 PM
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Hmm, I might go with that, especially since it would be a breeze to repair, but I hate the idea of a profile plane imo. I do not like the idea of an outdoor plane having exposed electronics placed outside the center of the airfoil. (the battery seems placed on only one side of the fuselage)
^^ I was going to design the original with two cabanes, but I skipped them because it may be problematic cutting the foam into smooth slopes. I'll also try slipping them on backwards.
Thanks!
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 09:20 PM
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I hear you on the electronics hanging out. I tuck everything inside whenever I can. But for most of the 3d planes, weight is such an important thing to minimize that folk compromise.
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 09:24 PM
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Yeah I'm not actually really concerned about 3D performance- this would be my 3rd proper plane , and 2nd 4ch plane, once I got supplies necessary for it. But having some awesome floaty feeling in the air would be nice for the yard,
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Old Mar 09, 2015, 04:21 PM
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Updated the model slightly. Shifted the cabane forward as far as it would go, increased rudder area, added mock carbon-fiber rods, and slightly improved elevator authority.
http://i.imgur.com/QiGOxyP.png
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 04:10 AM
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Build it man!

Ken
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 05:41 AM
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And a short question, besides tyring to get AS3X, how might I counter torque? The plans did not account for torque.
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 09:06 AM
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Based on the pics I'm starting to think if we're reinventing the wheel... And I really don't want to discourage designing new models, but look yourself: I3D.

IMHO I3D is a proven design which flies slowly and lands easily. Easy build, too. Can withstand small gusts, but as a relatively slow & draggy biplane is not really made for windy weather.

And I'm pretty sure your design will fly great if you just compare it between I3D and check that there's not any major differences in surface areas. And of course build it relative light. These biplanes are great for practicing as they are floaty & slow!
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 01:36 PM
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Oh man. I may very well go for the I3D, but suddenly I'm thinking a monowing may be better, like a modified Polaris or something.
My SKP file is a maybe for the time being
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 04:24 PM
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I would still encourage you to build a biplane. It fits your original specs fully and provides you with smooth learning curve from Sport Cub S.

I've built I3D, 100% Polaris and Lil' Ripper. I3D as a biplane is by far the best for back yard style flying and also great for 3D practicing. Polaris is a stable and easy flyer and can handle wind well, but needs lot of space, too. It doesn't fly slowly - with the exception of high alpha flying, which I would regard as an advanced maneuver. Lil' Ripper is also a fun plane. Good for practicing 3D, but it's much faster and also somewhat more demanding from pilot than I3D. It can handle wind somewhere between Polaris and I3D.

I would build your own biplane design or I3D. Then maybe build Lil' Ripper or something similar next. It would be relative easy to use same electronics (motor etc) on both I3D and Lil' Ripper. After flying Lil' Ripper for some time you probably can fly any plane without too much trouble...
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Old Mar 10, 2015, 05:18 PM
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Okay, I take that back! :P
I might very well place the order for some foam, then build the airfoil for my plane (biggest difference being stabler wings compared to I3D) and then see the prices for electronics.
Last question before I can start - How to make EPP work? It looks so flexible, I don't trust that EPP would not warp when the control surfaces move.
Or would the wings be depron?
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Old Mar 11, 2015, 10:40 AM
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Here is another good choice. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post31023735

Ken
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