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Old Jun 03, 2012, 02:49 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
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The problem with sanctioning is all the requirements that go with it. 30 days notice, figuring out which ones to do, etc. As it stands wih the RMSA and its F3K contests, there are no more currently sanctioned events after BSOC. If there isn't clear direction now for cycle start and requirements, it is likely that some of the upcoming club contests will not be sanctioned but are still worthy of earning points.

Of course the F3K community could always do away with the points system to qualify, like has been done in other areas. Blasphemy, I know.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 07:34 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post
The problem with sanctioning is all the requirements that go with it. 30 days notice,
The team selection program also has a 30 day notification notice for contest listings.


Quote:
Of course the F3K community could always do away with the points system to qualify, like has been done in other areas. Blasphemy, I know.
The team selection qualification process has been a contributing factor to the growth in F3K contests held in the US and A.

Ryan
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 08:20 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
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Only in those areas where there is enough population to support it. I know of some good DLG pilots that can't get to contests very often, if ever, because they live in more remote portions of the country and can't afford to travel that often. Those of us that live in or near larger population centers are able to participate more readily and without the overhead. It is hard/impossible for many people out here in the less populated states to even organize a contest that meets the minimum requirements.

What down side can there be to opening up the process to include more people? One of the AMA's purposes is to promote the hobby, not restrict participation because of geography and population density.

For the DLG fliers I know, the TS process had exactly nothing to do with their interest in F3K. If anything it is preventing people from trying competition because of perceptions of the type of people they would be competing against.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 12:51 AM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post

For the DLG fliers I know, the TS process had exactly nothing to do with their interest in F3K. If anything it is preventing people from trying competition because of perceptions of the type of people they would be competing against.
There were less than half the AMA sanctioned hand launch contests in 2008 as there were in the last 2 team qual cycles. CDs and clubs have been scheduling and sanctioning a lot of new contests to get pilots more opportunities to qualify.

I don't understand your statement about how the TS qual process turned people off to f3k. Either they are not interested in the US team in which case simply don't list your contest with the TS qual program or they are interested in the US team and if they are afraid of the caliber of pilots that might be drawn to their contests what could they possibly expect at the team selection?

If a pilot is in a remote area and isn't able to travel to many contests I don't see how the TS makes any sense for them anyway. A TS will almist certianly invobe travel and an event like IHLGF or Bruce would be a much better investment.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 10:08 AM
Jim C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post
. If anything it is preventing people from trying competition because of perceptions of the type of people they would be competing against.
? I do not understand this sentence. Could you help me understand what you mean?
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:14 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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If the window for TS is going to start this July, I would like to ask that the remaining contests in the ESL calendar be added to TS starting from July 1st.

those contests are:

CRRC Hand Launch Classic in Sudbury, MA July 7th and 8th
Long Island Hand Launch Classic Syosset, NY Aug 4th and 5th
CASA HLG Rockville, MD Aug 18 and 19
SKSS Hand Launch Newark, DE Sept 15 and 16
DESS HLG Wilson, NC Oct 6 and 7

If any CD wishes not to be apart of TS, then they can indicate but the last time I checked all CDs that I have spoken to in ESL had indicated desire.

I am asking for this only to prevent what happened last year where CRRC wanted to but did not get their request in early enough and I think another contest did as well and had the same fate and was left off the list.

Frank N.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:57 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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Can we alter the way a contest is added to the TS qualifier point issuing contest list?

Instead, can we only request it once and for the life that contest is offered, it is on the schedule.

Only if the contest goes away or there is a request for it to be removed will it come off the calendar.

Might be easier than having to redo the calendar each year. Only will need to maintain the list when new ones are added.

Frank
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 08:29 AM
I'm all about that bass
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Frank,

The idea behind listing contests is to provide a national contest calendar and to give everyone fair planning opportunity.

I have no idea how to make "for life" work. If i setup "Blue Skies over Rhode Island" as a reoccuring event on the 2nd tuesday of Flipvember then what happens when in 2019 the club doesnt stick to this or the CD dies and the info on the calendar for contact info goes stale?

As it is now, I make the requirements for CDs/clubs very easy. I don't require contest results in any particular fashion, in many cases I have hand entered results from photos of contest results, I don't require notification in any particular format, etc.

I noted your request for the 2015 cycle and will add those when I hear final word what the plans are for this upcoming cycle.



Ryan
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 03:25 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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Ryan,

My hope was to make your life easier but I see your point. Maybe we could automate the addition or something so you no longer need to manually do it. Anything to make this process take less manual intervention. Just hoping to make it easier so more will do it. Also, if you can benefit, that would be great. you do so much already that if we could find a way to make your life easier, it would be a way all of us,who you have made their lives easier, would be paying it back to you.

thanks

Frank
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 04:03 PM
I'm all about that bass
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The beat way to automate the calendar that I have found is to use google calendars. If clubs use a google calendar (or other calendars like outlook would work too) all they need to do is add usaf3k "at" gmail . Com to the invite list. This will send me a notification and all I have to do is click yes and then the info as you enter it goes directly into the team selection qual program calendar. Similarly, if you want to put stuff in Bruce's tour calendar just add usaf3ktour (gmail) to the invite list.

These google calendars can be embedded in websites and have some better features than HTML tables that clubs frequently have on their websites to list their event calendars.

Ryan
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 08:15 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
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Been out of town.

The perception is that the people at these sanctioned contests are hard core, overly competitive people whose primary purpose is beating everyone there. At RMSA, we have tried hard to overcome this perception and I think are doing a pretty good job. I know other "clubs" our here are dealing with similar issues and perceptions. There are still good pilots flying DLGs that we can't change the minds of though.

Why is F3K the only sailplane competition format that requires qualification process to fly in the TS contest. I have had confirmed that F3J does not have a qualification requirement, and waiting on confirmation of F3F and F3B. If the other 3 are successful and comfortable with out having a qualification process, why can't F3K? Are we afraid that too many people will travel across the country, pay the $100, and fly?

Part of this conversation can easily be a regional issue. Here in outlaw country, there are fewer people to draw from and greater distances to cover.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:24 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post

Why is F3K the only sailplane competition format that requires qualification process to fly in the TS contest. I have had confirmed that F3J does not have a qualification requirement, and waiting on confirmation of F3F and F3B.
J,B, and F also don't now have 30+ sanctioned contests a season in the USA. Maybe they too would benefit from a qualification process.


Ryan
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Old Jun 06, 2012, 02:54 PM
Oleg Golovidov
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I added the few contest results that I had to the 2012 USA F3K Tour results table. It is missing quite a few contest results between October 2011 and now. If you were a CD of a 2-day contest and you had 20 or more pilots, please send me the results in F3KScore format.

http://usaf3ktour.com/
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Old Jun 06, 2012, 11:41 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
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Ryan, that is not an answer to my question. Tom, any help on actually answering why?
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:01 AM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post
Ryan, that is not an answer to my question. Tom, any help on actually answering why?
First off I will preface this with the info that I am just a volunteer and have been a lurker in the conversations that went on early in the F3K team selection process days. My bottom line from reading the conversations here and other places is the reason that there is a F3K qualification process is 3 fold:

1) We all know that the hand launch/F3K community is large but the powers that be at the AMA didn't/don't know that. For some time now the AMA leadership has stated that they are under pressure from the AMA membership at large to reduce spending on FAI teams. You don't have to take my word for this, if you search the AMA website/search the archives of the president's columns you can see information on this yourself. If F3K wanted to really do well in the AMA's eyes then a few things had to be improved. In 2008 there were not a ton of AMA sanctioned hand launch contests. One goal of the process was to create incentive for sanctioning and building more contests. This goal has certainly been successful. A 2013 worlds cycle change was made with regards to trying to get more people to enter the team program. That metric also makes F3K look good in the AMA's eyes.

The AMA doesn't have to financially support the F3K team. The AMA doesn't even have to allow the F3K team to even exist. A big part of the team qualification process was/is influenced by making sure that the F3K team becomes a "golden child" within the FAI events in the AMA's eyes. The fact that George won a medal, the Juniors won medals, we are sanctioning a good amount of contests, and there are a large # of pilots in the team program is a big start in that direction.

2) Improve the F3K community. Create a system to generate interest in F3K. Create a system to help grow F3K competition in the US.

3) It was known that hand launch is very popular. Even events like F3J with more barrier of entry from TD to F3J had 30-40 pilots enter team selections. If a F3K team selection drew 100 interested pilots that could cause problems with the host of the team selections. Some clubs/fields could handle a TS that large but if a club that had those kind of resources didn't volunteer to hold the TS that would be a problem.

Ryan
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