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Old Aug 11, 2012, 10:49 AM
Ron - AMA 1025
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USA, FL, Largo
Joined Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H. View Post
I've seen this a lot. What are often called radio problems at unofficial sites look just like the things we call stalls at club sites. The whole BNF thing is both a great help (market share) and hindrance (perceived problems) to Spektrum.
I just saw a guy perceive a Stryker full throttle into a parking lot this morning with a DX8.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ronwc View Post
I just saw a guy perceive a Stryker full throttle into a parking lot this morning with a DX8.
Well there just might be some problem with something. Or someone. But with that level of information, it sounds like my parents asking me about computer problems.

That's one of the classic difficulties with RC discussions - dealing with 2nd hand and 3rd hand descriptions of collections of things of unknown condition. Now take that to the Internet were everything is even more remote and it only gets worse.

I've seen problems at our fields blamed on Hitec, Futaba and Spektrum radios but few, if any of them, have had the kind of troubleshooting and investigation needed to 100% determine that really was the cause. But several people have changed radio brands because of it. From each of those brands, and to each of those brands.

Airtronics is in the clear so far, but I can think of only 1 Airtronics 2.4GHz user locally, so that may be an unfair advantage.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Joined Apr 2008
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I know a guy that services radios, the last 2 planes I heard about from him that went down due to radio failure were both high end models on Futaba......bet those guys are hating Futaba about now.

Some one said lets start at the beginning, and mentioned DSM2, but the beginning is DSM. Have the dx6, no issues, have a dx7 no issues, including 2 boats (yes it works on water) running DSM rx (ar6000). No range problems or glitches etc. on water.

Don't care if anyone hates spekky, and if they have a true problem with it is is their right to dislike it. I aint Pro for any brand radio, but if it aint broke don't fix it, hence why I haven't forked out dough for a new radio I don't need.

just my opinion, love it or hate it
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 09:08 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
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USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
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Our club is primarily Futaba. There are a couple of JR and a few Spektrum.

First-hand experience:

The Spektrum guys have more unexplained link losses than anyone, including the 72MHz systems. I bought a DX5 and had to send it in because one of the sticks stopped responding. I had never used it to fly a plane. I still have it now and can't sell it to anyone. It just gets used as a buddy box now.

You can read about problems with every brand but there seems to be more about Spektrum than any other.

As for the popularity, pricing sucks a lot of people in on these transmitters and a lot of the indoor and park folks get them for the BNF models that have gained popularity. I think more of the problems are with full-range models and perhaps the fuel planes.

I use ASSAN 2.4 modules in my transmitters for 80% of my planes. This was a cost factor more than anything else but I have no problems related to TX/RX link that I am aware of.

I always look for the usual problems when there is a loss of control first. TX battery level, RX battery level, failed servos, loose connections, range, linkage problems, control horn problems, TX antenna position, and RX antenna position. We can't always tell what caused the failure but we don find a lot of them.

I do suggest anyone in our club using spektrum rx to use a brown-out cap. It does not cost much, not much weight, and it can help any plane have cleaner power to the rx.

So anyway, I think bashing the people that are concerned about losing planes/helis/etc. is not productive. A lot of people have had problems with them.


Also - I love the iCrap username.
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 09:45 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotozuk View Post
Now that the Horizon Hobbies JR/SPektrum contract has finally expired, JR has a bit more power to do what they need, but they are still tied to HH to distribute their radios in the US, and now that Spektrum can compete directly with JR, it should be interesting. If I were JR I'd consider other distribution in the US market. Why will HH want to sell JR when they can sell their own home brand for more profit? Also, you will notice that JR immediately offered their own 2.4 system to remove themselves from the Spektrum issues.
Is there a link where we can read more about this contract that expired?
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 06:18 AM
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Hungary, Borsod-Aba˙j-ZemplÚn, Miskolc
Joined Mar 2011
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I'd like to join this discussion, altough I never had a Spektrum radio in my hands, only seen one DX6i a few times. But, the whole issue played a major role in my decision on buying a radio system. I started flying last year with a cheapo RTF fhss radio (Pelikan Cadet4 to be precise) and immediatly fell for the gliders at our local field. I decided that I want a real (read: non-foamy) glider. For that I needed a computer radio, 6 but preferably 8 channels. I started reading up on all kinds of transmitters, even on the 2.4GHz technology, dsss vs fhss etc... I also ordered MAN and Electric Flight. My first candidate was of course the Spektrum DX6i because of its price range, almost affordable (note, in my region the money flow can't be compared to the west, USA, even our neghbor austrians get 5x more for the same job. We use a lot of used gear and planes, buying a new Tx is almost luxurious)
I immediately noticed how much of the Spektrum market consists of BnF flyers, can't really remember reading about anyone flying gassers or 3m+ gliders with Spektrum systems. I also read a lot of crash reports from Spektrum users. I was still a rookie I didn't need another factor (besides my own flying "techique") in crashes. Long story short I bought a 9X. The HobbyKing Turnigy one, with an FrSky module
According to my story, and I think I'm not alone in this, Spektrum losing its existing users is the smaller problem, the bigger problem is the fresh meat in the hobby reading up things before they touch their wallet. Spektrum, and DSM/DSM2/DSMX will be more than adequte for park flying and indoor shenanigans, anything else will require a more reliable and full range system. Any self-aware modeler who wants to expand later, will stay away from Spektrum.

Now the problems can be traced back to either user error, or to the manufacturer, and the majority of the problems could've been eliminated by altering, optimizing their RF technology, even dismissing the dead-end dsss technology which they did with DSMX. Why did they wait for such a long time? Furthermore they marketed their technology for larger scale (anything larger and more complicated than a parkflyer) when it was clear this technology was only for parkflyers and BnF toys.
The real problem was greed, lack of a decent damage control and lazyness, not developing their technology until it was almost too late. Also telling their customers their radio was flawless and the crashes were 100% user error. Waiting for such a long time some users grew sour, some die-hard fans began arguing and the whole mess was created as we see today.
One thing is clear for me, Spektrum, HH and its BnF fleet is not my cup of tea. I won't judge the micro models I won't judge the people using them, but Spektrum and it's lack of development places them on the bottom on my "list".
I just don't like companies lying to their customers.

BTW I'm upgrading from my 9X soon to a Futaba 9C, used of course. Maybe I'll meet a few people from the forum next year on one of the F3J contests in Hungary
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 07:58 AM
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Australia, New South Wales, Penrith
Joined Jul 2007
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I agree with ronwc, I don't 'hate' anything RC. But Julez has summed up the situation pretty well.

I had had two lockouts with a DSM2 dx6 due to the Rx rebooting and taking forever to lock back on, and I was looking for an 8ch upgrade. I know an external BEC might have saved me, but I tried a Turnigy 9x with FrSky as for $120 it had hopping, (like DSMX, but DSMX wasn't out yet), telemetry, and almost instant reboot, features you just couldn't get in a spektrum system three years ago.

Now, since I'm quite confident with this setup, I guess I have no compelling reason to go back to spektrum, as although a dx8 is a nice radio, it can't do anything my 9x can't and costs twice as much. I imagine many are in the same boat as I.
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:20 AM
Fly to live, live to fly
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United States, FL, Miami
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
Each manufacturer has it's fans. How many who complain about one brand or another own one of each brand he is commenting on. I personally have Futaba, FrSky, Spectrum and Airtronics. The only one I've ever had a problem with is the Spectrum although even it is quite good for the most part. From a quality of product, all vary depending on the price range. In general Spectrum is the poorest but even their poorest end is quite qood. At the high end, you will find it hard to beat Futaba for reliability but all the companies cut lots of corners on the low cost end of the products.
Same happened to me... You are right, there are other brands who are better for the money (quality wise) than spektrum. I have a JR DMSS XG11 ,a DX8 and a FrSky 9 ch, and let me tell you, of all issues i had, spektrum was the only one who had to go back... Now I'm flying my foamies only with my DX8... Extras, yak 50cc and extreme flight 2m vanqwish go with my XG11 bought in hong kong (rc711.com) because I got desperate after waiting an eternity for horizon hobbies to have this JR in stock, when it has been available 1 year ago overseas...!!!
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:22 AM
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United States, UT, Salt Lake City
Joined Oct 2007
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Obviouslymost horror stories are based in lack of product knowledge and the ability to be easily influenced . Some are just strange.
to wit : sticks stopped responding -now it is a buddy box.
really?
also " JR implemented own system to divorce themselves from Spektrum problems"
Really?
and " DX8 won't do anything a 9X can do".

Opinions are of course , personal , tho for some it accompanies an agenda.
The irrefutable fact tho is Spektrum outsells all the others combined - simply because it has features which appeal to a broader audience .
And all in all does it quite well.
Do other brands work?
sure - they simply do not share the features which made Spektrum so popular .
I do have other radios besids Spektrum
I buy em -try em and sell what I don't care for .

The most amazing setup of the bunch?
The new UMX bind n fly-
simply so far ahead of the pack that it can't be compared.
I invite anyone to share problems they have seen with those models -which are Spektrum based .
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterby View Post
...even dismissing the dead-end dsss technology which they did with DSMX. ...
Incorrect.

DSMX is DSSS, the same as DSM2, but on 23 frequencies instead of 2.

Direct Sequence is much better for RC than a pure FH system.

Andy
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:31 AM
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United States, UT, Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
Incorrect.

DSMX is DSSS, the same as DSM2, but on 23 frequencies instead of 2.

Direct Sequence is much better for RC than a pure FH system.

Andy
"don't confuse me with facts -my head is made up".
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Rhode Island USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard hanson View Post
The irrefutable fact tho is Spektrum outsells all the others combined -



The new UMX bind n fly-
simply so far ahead of the pack that it can't be compared.
I invite anyone to share problems they have seen with those models -which are Spektrum based .

Do you have some links to your "irrefutable fact"?


I have a bench full of UMX models that have problems. I continually read about the new UMX planes having problems like the Beast and the Carbon Cub.

VP
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Victory Pete View Post
Do you have some links to your "irrefutable fact"?


I have a bench full of UMX models that have problems. I continually read about the new UMX planes having problems like the Beast and the Carbon Cub.

VP
" Problems" is apparantly your middle name
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by richard hanson View Post
" Problems" is apparantly your middle name
Incorrect, it is John.

VP

PS: Can you answer the first question please?
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 08:45 AM
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I would say that it is more about distrust than hate. It is just hard to trust Spektrum, especially with high value models, given their track record.

How about a little history...
Spektrum was first to market with their 2.4ghz systems, but it came at a heavy price in both their reputation and customer aircraft. DSM/2 was simplistic and not very robust. Their "Dual Link" "technology" randomly selects two free channels which could be adjacent which basically negates any advantage that using two frequencies would provide. Their DSM2 receivers went through multiple revisions to fix numerous problems ranging from "uncommanded elevator inputs" to the ridiculously long relink times.

When the full range DX7 was released, many people lost their planes due to poor low voltage performance of their RXs (a problem that persists today). Many people were still using 4 cell rx packs to power their electronics which often proved inadequate under load for the Spektrum RXs. Of course Spektrum's competitors don't seem to be as affected by these brownout issues, but it didn't stop Spektrum from pulling crap like this. Then there was the DX8 - probably one of the worst tx launches ever with numerous hardware and software problems.

People will say that since Spektrum has more users, there are more complaints. There is some truth to this, but one just has to look at the sheer number of service bulletins that Spektrum has had to put out for its radios and receivers. Compare that with their competitors. Of course, every manufacturer has had problems, but not to the degree that Spektrum has had.

Instead of improving their underlying technology, Spektrum rather slap on more band-aids in the form of extra satellites, flashing LEDs, flight log data, and diversity TX antennas. Then there are the quality control issues such as bad trim switches, poor quality pots, pots with faulty connectors (how did this get by testing?), faulty LCDs, etc.

Spektrum gambled and given their market penetration, it was probably a financial win, but it is going to take a long time for Spektrum to rehabilitate its reputation. And, I don't know if they will ever be taken seriously as a high-end manufacturer.

Essentially, Spektrum does not have a track record that engenders trust.
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