Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sgoodmeyer View Post
Shouldn't matter. It's still transmitting in a pre-approved protocol and band. But, as previously said, the FCC probably isn't going to be coming after him. Even if they did want to investigate his signal all they are going to sniff is Spektrum, which is legal. I wonder if they could even pick it out from all the other Spektrum TXs if he was at a busy flying field. But, that was an interesting point someone else brought up about civil matters (i.e. being sued - not criminal) if they had an accident and it was discovered he was using a hacked TX.
AFAIK even a compatable module has to get approved

You are changing the approved transmision to a modified one via firmware that is not certified for that particular device.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:13 PM
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Spektrum all the way.
The only time I'd use a Walkera TX or RX to control my Micky 400 or Gaui X5 is if I had of smoked too much..
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
AFAIK even a compatable module has to get approved
It would be interesting to know how much the FCC would actually care here in the U.S. Again, presuming the guy wasn't an idiot with his R/C gear and did something to get himself in the news, how would the FCC even find him in the first place when all they'd see is Spektrum radio traffic?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:00 PM
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I hadn't read the rest of the thread yet when I quoted you and your post was only the second one. But, yeah. I'm sure the FCC will be coming to burn his house down any day now for converting a TX to use an already recognized and approved radio transmission protocol.
Which is pretty much what I said, isn't it. I use the stuff myself.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:08 PM
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Which is pretty much what I said, isn't it. I use the stuff myself.
What stuff? Hacked TX or orange RXs? Because if it's the latter, there's a huge difference when your grey-market, iffy equipment is not sending radio traffic into the air. Very worst case, you might be dealing with copyright issues, but certainly not with the FCC. And, I highly doubt Horizon/Spektrum would even bother with an end user. If they cared enough, they'd just try to go after whoever makes the copycat orange RXs.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:13 PM
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What stuff? Hacked TX or orange RXs? Because if it's the latter, there's a huge difference when your grey-market, iffy equipment is not sending radio traffic into the air. Very worst case, you might be dealing with copyright issues, but certainly not with the FCC. And, I highly doubt Horizon/Spektrum would even bother with an end user. If they cared enough, they'd just try to go after whoever makes the copycat orange RXs.
I have used both - the transmitter we tested failed at ridiculously short range, and I forget what brand it was but it connected to a stock Spek receiver just fine - and controlled it at full power out to about 50 yards. I own some knock-off receivers - Orange and "no-name" types. They seem to work just fine, but they do run afoul of various laws, not just FCC laws, but intellectual property laws too. It's not like people care too much, but they should at least know.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sgoodmeyer View Post
It would be interesting to know how much the FCC would actually care here in the U.S. Again, presuming the guy wasn't an idiot with his R/C gear and did something to get himself in the news, how would the FCC even find him in the first place when all they'd see is Spektrum radio traffic?
No one is saying you cant use it and not get caught/trouble..people do non legal stuff all the time and dont get caught...


The fact is they care...look around at any device that send transmissions...every single device (even ones that use the same protocols) are individually approved and numbered by them. If it only recieves a signal(listens) it needs to be tested and and verified it complies with standards and doesnt have to have an FCC ID#.


It is a much better bet if you want to go cheap to get a module based or spek compatable system that has been tested/approved. Even more so in the event you have an unfortunate accident

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Originally Posted by sgoodmeyer View Post
What stuff? Hacked TX or orange RXs? Because if it's the latter, there's a huge difference when your grey-market, iffy equipment is not sending radio traffic into the air. Very worst case, you might be dealing with copyright issues, but certainly not with the FCC. And, I highly doubt Horizon/Spektrum would even bother with an end user. If they cared enough, they'd just try to go after whoever makes the copycat orange RXs.
You wouldnt have to worry about FCC since orange rx's at the very least comply with FCC standards when made
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
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I have used both - the transmitter we tested failed at ridiculously short range, and I forget what brand it was but it connected to a stock Spek receiver just fine - and controlled it at full power out to about 50 yards. I own some knock-off receivers - Orange and "no-name" types. They seem to work just fine, but they do run afoul of various laws, not just FCC laws, but intellectual property laws too. It's not like people care too much, but they should at least know.
Personally, I don't use any hacked/grey-market R/C equipment, but that's for reliability reasons and not legal ones.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:38 PM
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Personally, I don't use any hacked/grey-market R/C equipment, but that's for reliability reasons and not legal ones.
Right, and I believe that was my original argument - that even if you didn't care about the legal issues, you're still facing potential reliability problems because it's not "approved" equipment. What if Spek suddenly changes what the RX is looking for, and it's compatible with original equipment but somehow not compatible with knock-off stuff. Personally, I would do that in such a way that the thing fails randomly in the air. Kinda like the infamous Black Sunday back-hack... there was genius behind that... but I kinda worry about stuff like this when using non-standard equipment, because I know it's what I would do if I was the company getting ripped-off.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/200...nday-hack.html
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:45 PM
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What if Spek suddenly changes what the RX is looking for, and it's compatible with original equipment but somehow not compatible with knock-off stuff.
The orange RXs are DSM2 only, right? I don't believe the counterfeiters have quite yet cracked the egg on DSMX over there in China. That said, there's no way Spektrum could/would do that. They'd mess up all the zillions of existing DSM2 RXs. At a minimum, they'd all have to be sent in for a firmware update. If it's compatible with "original equipment", then it's compatible with the orange RXs. No different, really, from when Spektrum went to DSMX. They made a "change", yet all the old DSM2 stuff still worked (mostly) and didn't require updating. Besides, if all these DSM2 RXs start suddenly going back, the counterfeiters are going to notice and be very quick to copy whatever that new stuff is, too, especially since they already have 99+% of it with their existing DSM2 copied architecture/firmware.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:54 PM
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The orange RXs are DSM2 only, right? I don't believe the counterfeiters have quite yet cracked the egg on DSMX over there in China. That said, there's no way Spektrum could/would do that. They'd mess up all the zillions of existing DSM2 RXs. At a minimum, they'd all have to be sent in for a firmware update. If it's compatible with "original equipment", then it's compatible with the orange RXs. No different, really, from when Spektrum went to DSMX. They made a "change", yet all the old DSM2 stuff still worked (mostly) and didn't require updating. Besides, if all these DSM2 RXs start suddenly going back, the counterfeiters are going to notice and be very quick to copy whatever that new stuff is, too, especially since they already have 99+% of it with their existing DSM2 copied architecture/firmware.
Go read up on the Black Sunday Hack... it is pure beauty. They were able to remotely disable the receivers of hacked systems without disturbing honest customers - using broadcast-only technology. The hackers were forced to include the kill code in their copied cards, otherwise the copy wouldn't work, and when all the kill code finally arrived, it killed their card (it actually erased the card completely and wrote "game over" on it), but up until that point, it was just innocent data that had to be there. I don't think it would be possible for Spek to do that kind of thing, but I wouldn't fault them for trying it.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:07 PM
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Go read up on the Black Sunday Hack... it is pure beauty. They were able to remotely disable the receivers of hacked systems without disturbing honest customers - using broadcast-only technology. The hackers were forced to include the kill code in their copied cards, otherwise the copy wouldn't work, and when all the kill code finally arrived, it killed their card (it actually erased the card completely and wrote "game over" on it), but up until that point, it was just innocent data that had to be there. I don't think it would be possible for Spek to do that kind of thing, but I wouldn't fault them for trying it.
That's a little different, though. DirecTV has absolute control over their customers because they control the broadcast mothership, so to speak... Spektrum has no control over a person's individual TX, which would be needed to do this Black Sunday Hack type of thing in order to communicate with their RX(s). Even if Spektrum put up a bazillion watt transmitter and sent out a constant signal to all the RXs so they'd catch this update when they're eventually powered up, theoretically, the RXs wouldn't even listen to it since Spektrum has no way of knowing what a person's individual TX GUID actually is. Again, Spektrum has no way of accessing an individual's TX to install this firmware "bomb" to be transmitted to all their RXs and not every Spektrum TX is capable of doing Airware updates (nor does everyone even do them) where this could be included. Maybe, they could do it with a blanket transmission with all the GUID records they have (IF they even keep those sorts of records), but not everyone (not by far) registers their TX, either. That great number of people wouldn't be very happy being left out in the cold when their stuff crashes because of some broadcast update, if that were even possible.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:10 PM
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I think this thread has reached the conclusion requested and think it should be closed with immediate effect.
The Walkera Vs Spektrum argument will continue until I'm 99 Years old (I'm only 37Yrs now).
The masses rely on Spektrum, JR, Futaba for special reason.
99% OF US HAVEN'T BEEN LET DOWN BY IT, that's why. It works, and it's WORLDWIDE. IT'S THE WAY OF THE DAY.
A good and honest thread has been produced in the "Large-heli" forum, and the poster says words to similar effect; Buy cheap, buy twice, buy x 10.
Way of the game...
Sorry if it offends, but I DISLIKE WALKERA IN DROVES.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:12 AM
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i would not trust any hacked radio equipment until I connect it to a spectrum analyzer and an RF power meter....yes the tx may be using the same protocol but the radio may be still transmitting on more than one channel or pushing power across the whole 2.4ghz spectrum which is illegal in most regulated countries...It may be transmitting at 100mw on your selected channel but also transmitting 50mw on surrounding channels..
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sgoodmeyer View Post
That's a little different, though. DirecTV has absolute control over their customers because they control the broadcast mothership, so to speak... Spektrum has no control over a person's individual TX, which would be needed to do this Black Sunday Hack type of thing in order to communicate with their RX(s). Even if Spektrum put up a bazillion watt transmitter and sent out a constant signal to all the RXs so they'd catch this update when they're eventually powered up, theoretically, the RXs wouldn't even listen to it since Spektrum has no way of knowing what a person's individual TX GUID actually is. Again, Spektrum has no way of accessing an individual's TX to install this firmware "bomb" to be transmitted to all their RXs and not every Spektrum TX is capable of doing Airware updates (nor does everyone even do them) where this could be included. Maybe, they could do it with a blanket transmission with all the GUID records they have (IF they even keep those sorts of records), but not everyone (not by far) registers their TX, either. That great number of people wouldn't be very happy being left out in the cold when their stuff crashes because of some broadcast update, if that were even possible.
It was merely given as an example of what types of things are done to deal with this kind of problem (people using unauthorized equipment), and to show that the desire to do so is high enough to engineer something pretty complicated. It wasn't an example of anything specific that Spektrum could do.
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