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Old Jan 21, 2010, 03:13 PM
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John hasn't tested the SD-10G, but ATX has published latency on the SD-10G and their methods for collecting the date, which are similar/same to Johns, so until(if ever) those numbers are contraindicated, I'll take them as true. =)
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Old Jan 21, 2010, 03:52 PM
A man with too many toys
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Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
Latency results for the 8FG with 6008HS receiver posted here : http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/
WOW Futaba sure blows away all the other brands.


.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 01:14 PM
North Simcoe Flyers
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Midland, Ontario, Canada
Joined May 2007
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Question re 8FG

I have been looking at a few radios as am in need to upgrade from my primary radio which is an older JR XP783. It has been a fantastic radio over the years with many features and will keep it to continue running my 72MHz stuff. I fly a variety of models from large glow, to small electrics, and starting to dabble with small heli's. I suspect I would not go wrong with either the Hitec A9, JR 9503 or the Futaba 8FG, as each one has something unique to offer. However, seem to be convinced that the 8FG may be the right choice for me as I weigh out the differences....just need to handle one to ensure it "feels" right.

I do have some questions, and I believe it has come up in this thread but was not answered and is one key feature for me. Reading through the manual, it seems like there is a menu to control servo speed, but may be limited to 3 functions: Aileron, Flap and Elevator. I was hoping to be able to use this for retracts. I guess I could use the "flap" channel for retracts, but then would have no control on my flap deployment speed but not as critical for scale looks as with the retracts. Also realize there are other ways around this, but would like to keep it as simple as possible and have the control from the radio.(these would be electric retracts or mechanical...not the air ones obviously) So the questions:

1) Can servo speed be applied to other controls than the ones listed in the manual?

2) If not, does Futaba plan on enhancing this with a future s/w release?

3) What does the "Range Adjustment" 0-27 (max delay) represent? Is this total time in seconds for the servo to move to the desired position?

Any feedback would be much appreciated. Sounds like anyone that has purchased this radio is very happy with it.

BTW - Some key features that are pushing me towards the Futaba 8FG are:
- Low latency and proven reliability of FASST
- SD Card capability for saving model profiles
- Software upgradeable via SD card (no additional cables or modules required, just an inexpensive SD card)
- Clean lines of 8FG
- Neck Strap balance
- Slim design (but still need to handle one to be sure it works for me)
- Price tag fits my budget for a quality radio

rcwings
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 02:55 PM
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delay

ad 1) Not sure what the manual lists, but you can play with speed on Motor, Ail., Flaps and Elevator. And ofcourse Throttle Delay, which I would definitely abuse for my gear

ad 3) For Throttle Delay I tested that it takes 27 seconds for your servo to follow your stick from top to bottom, or if you use a switch it will take 27 secs to go from +100 to -100

I got the T8FG not only for the great price/performance ratio, but also because it has the least weight for its functionality.


Go feel for yourself!

Cheers,

Kees
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 03:12 PM
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Midland, Ontario, Canada
Joined May 2007
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Kees,

Thanks for the reply. Although this is not a deal killer for me, it is one of those cool features I was looking for to use and expand on. Sounds like a nice radio and can't wait to see and hold one. Hopefully it provides the same reliability my old JR has for years...the main reason this decision is so difficult for me.

Take care.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 04:02 PM
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I pulled the trigger last night and have an 8FGH on it's way to me now.

I am primarily a heli pilot who started with a 9CHP (dabbled in foamies after learning helis though), then moved to a DX7 when I was getting too many lockouts... Talk about 3 steps backwards in terms of radio features and programming, FASST wasn't out at the time so I had only the choice of Spektrum, or piling in expensive helis due to other's negligence (after 3 close calls with other people turning their TX's on without checking, and locking me out, I couldn't wait any longer to go 2.4). Not much of a choice at all.

Now I have the issue where DSM2 just doesn't have enough diversity, I fly in quite crowded RF environments and I've actually had quite a few incidents where my heli's control response slows down (lagout), and even a few lockouts . And I'm even careful to hold up my DX7 when it turn it on so it get's a clear picture of the RF environment when it chooses channels, unfortunatetly, others around me aren't so carefull (I find it worst if they have their back to the flightline while getting their aircraft ready and their body blocks their TX from seeing that the channels my radio chose are in use ).

I'm quite excited to go back to Futaba after all this time, I decided on FASST over the Aurora for reasons specific to me. FASST has been out long enough that I trust the protocol, and frequency hopping is IMHO vital for the environments I fly in, for some reason I've always had personally bad luck with Hitec electronics, every time I've tried the brand, I've had issues with them (keep in mind, this is just me, I know plenty of people who have had good luck with them, I've also had bad luck with Spektrum QC and have had even brand new RX's fail on me in flight).

I still have my 9CHP with a Spektrum Airmod (and a synth module), I plan on using that on foamy & FPV planes (to not have to buy new RX's for my entire fleet), and plan on selling off my DX7.

I'm really looking forward to being able to concentrate on flying again , instead of having to constantly search for the signs of lag increasing while flying (it's very distracting and frustrating to constantly have to try to determine if I should land to save the heli throughout the entire flight ).

I fly with an indoor club in a hangar that the rafters are at 18ft, so I spend much of the time down on the deck doing 3D, there is no altitude whatsoever to recover from a lagout when your heli's blades are 3 or 4" from the deck . Lag isn't a big deal with foamies, there is so little on a foamy blocking the RX that it recovers fast (that and the electronics aren't clustered so tight as my helis).

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 04:19 PM
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I am finally getting my first 2.4 system and I am really confused. I just checked out a 8FG at my LHS and it feels great. I have been flying JR for the last 10+ years but I am seriously thinking about making a switch. I just have a feeling that FASST might be a little more solid than DSM2.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
I pulled the trigger last night and have an 8FGH on it's way to me now.

I am primarily a heli pilot who started with a 9CHP (dabbled in foamies after learning helis though), then moved to a DX7 when I was getting too many lockouts... Talk about 3 steps backwards in terms of radio features and programming, FASST wasn't out at the time so I had only the choice of Spektrum, or piling in expensive helis due to other's negligence (after 3 close calls with other people turning their TX's on without checking, and locking me out, I couldn't wait any longer to go 2.4). Not much of a choice at all.

Now I have the issue where DSM2 just doesn't have enough diversity, I fly in quite crowded RF environments and I've actually had quite a few incidents where my heli's control response slows down (lagout), and even a few lockouts . And I'm even careful to hold up my DX7 when it turn it on so it get's a clear picture of the RF environment when it chooses channels, unfortunatetly, others around me aren't so carefull (I find it worst if they have their back to the flightline while getting their aircraft ready and their body blocks their TX from seeing that the channels my radio chose are in use ).

I'm quite excited to go back to Futaba after all this time, I decided on FASST over the Aurora for reasons specific to me. FASST has been out long enough that I trust the protocol, and frequency hopping is IMHO vital for the environments I fly in, for some reason I've always had personally bad luck with Hitec electronics, every time I've tried the brand, I've had issues with them (keep in mind, this is just me, I know plenty of people who have had good luck with them, I've also had bad luck with Spektrum QC and have had even brand new RX's fail on me in flight).

I still have my 9CHP with a Spektrum Airmod (and a synth module), I plan on using that on foamy & FPV planes (to not have to buy new RX's for my entire fleet), and plan on selling off my DX7.

I'm really looking forward to being able to concentrate on flying again , instead of having to constantly search for the signs of lag increasing while flying (it's very distracting and frustrating to constantly have to try to determine if I should land to save the heli throughout the entire flight ).

I fly with an indoor club in a hangar that the rafters are at 18ft, so I spend much of the time down on the deck doing 3D, there is no altitude whatsoever to recover from a lagout when your heli's blades are 3 or 4" from the deck . Lag isn't a big deal with foamies, there is so little on a foamy blocking the RX that it recovers fast (that and the electronics aren't clustered so tight as my helis).

-Kai
Your write up was quite helpful to me. I only got into RC in the last 2 years and originally chose a Futaba surface radio for a truck and boat. When I chose my current 7C Fasst, I knew Futaba was a good name (although the zero ID thing had just happened). Since then I realize I made a pretty good choice. The 7C is good once you understand it and other brnads have better user interfaces but the 8FG addresses quite a bit of that while retaining the rock solid performance. I use my radio for FPV and while I do not travel out too far, it has been completely trustworthy.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 04:38 PM
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Hmmmmm....very interesting. I was hoping the move to the next generation of RC control was going to be all positive coming from 72MHz. I have had great luck with my gear, but the clubs I fly at are relatively small and we have pretty decent frequency control. It has been many years since I have had a glitch, lag, lockout or radio attributed failure flying on 72MHz. The fear is always there that some act of stupidity by someone not checking the board will take you down. Looks like I may be in for some new concerns unless the Futaba FASST system is in fact as good as they claim.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rcwings View Post
Hmmmmm....very interesting. I was hoping the move to the next generation of RC control was going to be all positive coming from 72MHz. I have had great luck with my gear, but the clubs I fly at are relatively small and we have pretty decent frequency control. It has been many years since I have had a glitch, lag, lockout or radio attributed failure flying on 72MHz. The fear is always there that some act of stupidity by someone not checking the board will take you down. Looks like I may be in for some new concerns unless the Futaba FASST system is in fact as good as they claim.
I have the futaba 8fg for a while, from release, a month later i got my radio. I'm very happy with it, i have not received any glitch. I tried it on a exi 450 and i went pretty far out anyways here is a video of me using my radio on my raptor 30.I really enjoy my radio, and i still use my spektrum dx6i, but people been having issue at my club with spektrum radios so i selected futaba 8fg. Anyways heres the video. You can see clearly my radio too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz53AafH7s
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 06:19 PM
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Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
Your write up was quite helpful to me. I only got into RC in the last 2 years and originally chose a Futaba surface radio for a truck and boat. When I chose my current 7C Fasst, I knew Futaba was a good name (although the zero ID thing had just happened). Since then I realize I made a pretty good choice. The 7C is good once you understand it and other brnads have better user interfaces but the 8FG addresses quite a bit of that while retaining the rock solid performance. I use my radio for FPV and while I do not travel out too far, it has been completely trustworthy.
The other thing I'm looking forward to, is that the R6106HF and HFC RX's offer 7ms framerate, my little Ricco SE micro helis are already all digital servos throughout, so I'm really looking forward to not only getting tighter servo control through the increased framerate, but also to finally being able to tune out all of the CCPM interactions. On my larger helis I'm looking forward to the 2048 resolution and the advanced CCPM tuning capability.

I contemplated getting the DX7SE for a little while (before I started having so many lag issues), until I found out that the only RX's that benefit from the increased response speed are AR7100's and above, a >1oz (32.5gr) RX is a bit much for a heli that only weighs 12.7oz (360gr), and that the DX7SE doesn't have a trainer port .

Over time I can see myself switching my 3D foamy planes to digital servos and FASST as well. The smaller the aircraft, the faster "undesired" things happen (tip stalls, torque effects, etc), so the faster and more precise I want it to be able to react.
DSM2, when turned on, scans the range from 2.4000ghz to 2.4835mhz, divvy's it up into 80 channels, then selects the 2 channels it perceives to be clearest (keeping in mind, this is only from what the antenna can see during it's powerup scan), and sticks with those 2 channels until the TX has been power cycled.

FASST, by comparison selects from a much higher number of channels and is constantly cycling between them every 2ms, I unfortunately don't know how many it selects from (I haven't bothered to read the patents), but I do know that it's been out for a fair amount of time now and I think that it's performance at crowded funflies speaks for itself. I also know that FASST has quite a bit of error correction built into it without sacrificing on latency (the 8FG in normal 14ms framerate is just as low latency as the DX7SE, and even less latency in 7ms framerate mode on RX's that are 1/4 the weight of the smallest high speed DSM2 aircraft RX).

Hitec's 2.4 system, selects 20 channels (depending upon a mode selection in the TX, either by using 20 preselected channels that it will always use, or by scanning on powerup), and cycles between them. It should be very similar in operation to FASST, but at this point I would like it to have more real world exposure before I would trust it fully (that and my formentioned aversion to Hitec, remember, that's just me ).
For me it came down to not just track record with the currently available protocols, but also knowing that Futaba has had quite a bit of experience in the industrial systems (one of the original reasons I went Futaba when I got into the hobby).

I'll admit it, I've always been a Futaba guy in RC, I strayed to Spektrum because I had to, but now I'm happily returning to the fold .

Here's how quick the first heli my 8FGH is going to be setup on is:
Eron Yamashita Flying 4s LA Heli Ricco (5 min 57 sec)

At this size heli , every little bit more speed and response I can get definetly makes a difference (and geometry is always even more of a bugger on small helis), that was just a practice flight working on smoothing out aspects of my piloting (when I'm showing off I do all of that down on the deck ). I truely can't wait to upgrade to the 8FGH on that heli, I'm drooling at the thought of it .

Edit: Disregard the part about DX7SE high speed RX's, I forgot they came out with a lighter AR7600 that has high speed. It's still rather spendy compared with the R6106HF's ($60) that will get me even faster response though, keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a 6ch high speed DSM2 RX to compare to price wise .

-Kai

P.S. Selecting channels segments isn't a dig on FASST or Hitec, even wireless networks subdivide the 2.4ghz band into overlapping channels to reduce interference.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 06:43 PM
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Midland, Ontario, Canada
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Just an FYI to any future 8FG buyers.....I noticed that the latest MAN magazine has an ad for Futaba purchase of a FASST radio system and for $10 more you get a R617FS receiver over the counter on the spot. Sounds like a good deal!!!!

I just got approval from my accountant to pursue a radio purchase. Just have to get to the nearest hobby store to handle one first.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 06:47 PM
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And if you're Tower Hobbies club member, you can use code #014E7 for $60 discount and free shipping.

Doug.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 06:53 PM
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Whoa, thanks for posting that ad number
Pete
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 07:04 PM
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Whoa, thanks for posting that ad number
Pete
You welcome Pete.

Kai_Shiden: Futaba FASST uses 36 channels from the band.

Doug.
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