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Old Aug 13, 2015, 05:56 AM
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Question
Ohlsson & Rice 60

I just collected three O&R engines.
Two 60's and one smaller engine.
One of the 60's is very complete including coil, tank ect. The other 60 is also complete but excluding the carb and ignition system.
The smaller one has no back plate and can only be used as a display.

How do I remove the head of the 60 engine? I'm busy cleaning it for a rebuild.
Then on what fuel do the spark ignition models run on and what type of oil do I use and the ratio of oil to fuel?
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Old Aug 13, 2015, 06:23 AM
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You do not remove the head, the head is part of the cylinder, a one piece unit. The aluminum finned part is actually swaged onto the top of the one piece steel cylinder. it does not come off.

Now then the cylinder/head unit is spot welded onto the crankcase, you cannot remove it either. What they do is, on the front and back is push down on the cylinder and spot weld the cylinder to a couple of steel washers in the crankcase. The washers are placed in a recess in the inside of the crankcase. You can see a target like symbol on the front and back of the cylinder where the spot welding machine melted the aluminum in the process of welding the washers onto the cylinder. Thus locking it in place.

There used to be a fellow in California who had the old O&R tooling. He used to remove the cylinders and re-spot weld them back on after replacing or replacing the gasket. But he has passed on and I do not know if anyone got the equipment to continue on or not. What happens is if the engine sits for many years the gasket dries out and shrinks and sometimes that results in a air leak then.

But you can remove the front end off of the engine and pull the rod and piston out from the cylinder/crankcase via the front opening. So it isn't a big deal to get that apart.

Regular gasoline and a good grade of 80 weight motor oil was the original mix for the engine. a 3:1 fuel to oil ratio was used. Using 70 weight motorcycle oil as such from a Harley Dealer works too. Using a good quality synthetic oil works too.

You can use glow fuel methanol and oil. The FAI fuel with no nitromethane is the fuel to use in that case. Do not use nitromethane though. Too much power, it will likely cause the spot welds to fail and thus blowing the cylinder off the crankcase.

Some guys use Coleman lantern fuel mixed 3:1 with oil too.

3:1 means 3 parts fuel with 1 part oil. Thus you get a 25% oil content in the fuel mix.
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Last edited by earlwb; Aug 13, 2015 at 06:26 AM. Reason: typo correction
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Old Aug 13, 2015, 12:41 PM
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Any time I hear comments on O&R 60 engines I am reminded of an afternoon in my youth (about 15). Two men (early 20's) show up at the ball diamond in the city park where we flew Control Line models.
"Normal "take off is from Home plate towards First base.

There model was a Veco Chief with an O&R 60 on Glow. They started the engine and then released it. It backed up to Third base!
Clancy
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Old Aug 13, 2015, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
You do not remove the head, the head is part of the cylinder, a one piece unit. The aluminum finned part is actually swaged onto the top of the one piece steel cylinder. it does not come off.

Now then the cylinder/head unit is spot welded onto the crankcase, you cannot remove it either. What they do is, on the front and back is push down on the cylinder and spot weld the cylinder to a couple of steel washers in the crankcase. The washers are placed in a recess in the inside of the crankcase. You can see a target like symbol on the front and back of the cylinder where the spot welding machine melted the aluminum in the process of welding the washers onto the cylinder. Thus locking it in place.

There used to be a fellow in California who had the old O&R tooling. He used to remove the cylinders and re-spot weld them back on after replacing or replacing the gasket. But he has passed on and I do not know if anyone got the equipment to continue on or not. What happens is if the engine sits for many years the gasket dries out and shrinks and sometimes that results in a air leak then.

But you can remove the front end off of the engine and pull the rod and piston out from the cylinder/crankcase via the front opening. So it isn't a big deal to get that apart.

Regular gasoline and a good grade of 80 weight motor oil was the original mix for the engine. a 3:1 fuel to oil ratio was used. Using 70 weight motorcycle oil as such from a Harley Dealer works too. Using a good quality synthetic oil works too.

You can use glow fuel methanol and oil. The FAI fuel with no nitromethane is the fuel to use in that case. Do not use nitromethane though. Too much power, it will likely cause the spot welds to fail and thus blowing the cylinder off the crankcase.

Some guys use Coleman lantern fuel mixed 3:1 with oil too.

3:1 means 3 parts fuel with 1 part oil. Thus you get a 25% oil content in the fuel mix.
I knew the guy that fixed O&R's. He used to come into the shop when I worked for Hobby Shack. Damned if I can remember his name now. He also made repros of the Edco Sky Devil. He gave one to me when I hid all his equipment at my house when he went through a messy divorce. Damn, I wish I could remember his name. Old age sucks sometimes. I'll dig the Sky Devil out and see if his name is in the instruction booklet. I think it was Jerry something. Bald head with paunch stomach.

I actually got two of them. Ran one on glow fuel. Noisiest engine I ever heard. All the neighbors came out to see what what making all the noise.

Oh and the instructions for my O&R's said to use 70 wt motor oil. That's what my old man used back in the 30's. I have most of my dad's engines from back then. The serial# on one of his Ohlssons is 315 and 150 on his Forster99
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Old Aug 13, 2015, 11:52 PM
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Thanks for all the info and stories. The people I got it from also remembered the old days when theis dad flew with these engines.
Te serial numbers on mine are 4911X and 1747. I do not know why the one have a "X" at the end.
Where can I get some more history about he Year of manufacture.

Attached is a picture of one 60 and the smaller one plus two Webra motors. A 60 and 20. Think they should also go into the "Museum" for safe keeping.
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Old Aug 14, 2015, 02:57 AM
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Hi Rudolf,
I'm a long-time "Ohlsson lover".
The X suffix on your serial number is an engine returned for repair to Ohlsson. If the repair involved a new cylinder/crankcase assembly, the new case was stamped with the same S/N as the original, with the X suffix.

Your photo only shows one Ohlsson. The engine top-left is an Ohlsson Custom .60 (my favourite! Great runners!), so I suppose it's this one that has the 4911X serial number. They were only made in 1940/41. Production was stopped because of a wartime ban on the high-grade materials used.

The engine without a backplate is an Atwood Phantom or Bullet from 1938/9.

Here's one of my Ohlsson Customs, roaring away in the middle of France...
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Old Aug 14, 2015, 05:40 AM
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Yes, the one in photo is the "X" number. The onther engine is currently in a bucket of kerosene to soften all the goo on it. Both engines have the Golden Eagle on the front of cranl case.
Still have to see if any of the head gaskets remains intact.

The Atwood engine is beyond dirty and would be cleaned then mounted as a display as it is very incomplete.
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Old Aug 14, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Just remembered. His name was Art Gross. Good guy.
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post

There used to be a fellow in California who had the old O&R tooling. He used to remove the cylinders and re-spot weld them back on after replacing or replacing the gasket. But he has passed on and I do not know if anyone got the equipment to continue on or not. What happens is if the engine sits for many years the gasket dries out and shrinks and sometimes that results in a air leak then.
His name was George Talent and he lived in Picacho Peak, Arizona just outside of Tucson. Had several conversations with him and meet him at the Southwest Regionals in Eloy, Az. He did several engines for me and they are the strongest runners I've got. He really was a great, kind person. I think his buddy Gene (I can't remember the last name) took over his tooling.

Mike
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CryHavoc View Post
His name was George Talent and he lived in Picacho Peak, Arizona just outside of Tucson. Had several conversations with him and meet him at the Southwest Regionals in Eloy, Az. He did several engines for me and they are the strongest runners I've got. He really was a great, kind person. I think his buddy Gene (I can't remember the last name) took over his tooling.

Mike
I think you are wrong. I worked for Hobby Shack in San Diego and Art was the guy that repaired and Ohlsson engines. He used to come in the store all the time. He also made and sold the Edco Sky Devil reproductions. Like I said I hid his equipment from his wife during his messing divorce. He gave me two Edcos for helping him during his divorce.
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CryHavoc View Post
His name was George Talent and he lived in Picacho Peak, Arizona just outside of Tucson. Had several conversations with him and meet him at the Southwest Regionals in Eloy, Az. He did several engines for me and they are the strongest runners I've got. He really was a great, kind person. I think his buddy Gene (I can't remember the last name) took over his tooling.

Mike
Good info . Pretty simple process actually . It would not take a lot of effort or money to make up the tools and fixtures to do the job . I wonder just how much demand there is for the service . I would be willing to do this if indeed there were a few out there in need .

BTW Didn't George spell his last name with two l's ? IE " Tallent" .
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 05:29 PM
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Here is a thread about the O&R 60 with some information about the spot welding, page 4 and later.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1517838

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Old Aug 15, 2015, 06:05 PM
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Thank you Cees ,

Once again , you are truly amazing . Yes , it was George Tallent that I too was thinking of who was well known for the re-welding work on O&R engines . Could be a need for new con-rods for the old engines as well . 7075 is a very strong material but a bit heavier per volume than other aluminum alloys . I did see sintered bronze bearings mentioned but as someone already noted , sizing them is a specialized operation that must be done with a very sharp , single point boring tool . Even then it is not right for this application .

Very good of you to chase down a link to the thread . If you had not become an instrumentation engineer you would have done well at pure research !
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 06:13 PM
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Ha Gary, thank you.......
Reconstructing of the history of the Taurus and Simla was pure history research. Nice to do and very important so we don't forget (that part of) the real history and all the people that did the efforts so we have a nice and interesting hobby.
@ Rudolf, when the serial numbers are known I probably can find out the age of the engines.

Grtz Cees
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Old Aug 15, 2015, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datsunguy View Post
I think you are wrong. I worked for Hobby Shack in San Diego and Art was the guy that repaired and Ohlsson engines. He used to come in the store all the time. He also made and sold the Edco Sky Devil reproductions. Like I said I hid his equipment from his wife during his messing divorce. He gave me two Edcos for helping him during his divorce.
I'm not sure who Art is other than I've heard the name but I've meet face to face with George. It could be that Art has the ability to fix them but George had the only Ohlsson factory tooling to repair engines known to exist. I think Gene and his kid have them now.

Mike
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