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Old Jul 06, 2012, 02:45 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAME747 View Post
If anyone has the set up an a flying wing with elevons only
Please post how you connected it to the guardian

Thanks,

FCA
From the manual page 5 (if you have no rudder, the rudder channel is obviously not used):

Elevon / V-Tail with no Ailerons
• Model Control Typesetting: Elevon
• Guardian Receiver Inputs
o Receiver Aileron Output →Guardian Aileron In
o Receiver Elevator Output →Guardian Elevator In
o Receiver Rudder Output →Guardian Rudder In
o Guardian Aux-In is not connected
• Output
o Guardian Aileron Out →Elevon Servo 1
o Guardian Elevator Out →Elevon Servo 2
o Guardian Rudder Out →Rudder Servo
o Guardian Aux Out is not connected
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 03:05 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,797 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
Installed mine in my 89" Slick yesterday and got a chance to take it out for a few flights today in winds ranging from 10-20+ mph. WOW. Flew almost exclusively in 3D mode (2D mode feels too much like its fighting my inputs for my tastes) landings were the most perfect I've ever done! I do need to fine tune what it considers "level" -- I set it up with a bubble level yesterday but it had a definite tendency to gently dive on what should have been stabilized level flight.

I was a little surprised that it allowed the nose to drop (in 3D mode) when doing an 8 point roll. I expected a roll only input would result in appropriate rudder/elevator inputs to hold the nose up (there was plenty of speed). Any ideas?
Between your original post (copied) above and this reply are some posts mentioning that the rudder gyro correction is weaker than the others. Perhaps that rudder gyro "being weaker" is letting the nose drop during the knife edge portions of the 8 point roll.when it is the rudder gyro's turn to try to keep the nose from dropping/
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 05:11 PM
LSF 004 - AMA 5055
bobandris's Avatar
United States, CA, Saratoga
Joined Dec 2000
589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
For the dual aileron, if you have a 2nd Ail channel from your Rx, make sure to disable the 'Onboard Dual Aileron Mixing' while you have the Aux cable between the Guardian and Rx connected.

On the other hand, if you want Guardian to do the Dual Aileron mixing for you (Onboard Dual Aileron Mixing enabled), then you need to disconnect the Aux cable between the Guardian and the Rx.

As for the Rudder gyro compensation, I too found it very little but my experience is that is more than enough when I had it installed in my 3DHS 41-in Edge. I even had to lower the gain in once instance.

Hope the info helps.
rico,

a BIG THANKS for your help.

I looked, on page 9 of the manual, at "Radio Stick Menu Operation" and about had a heart attack. As Yogi Berra said "It's deja vu all over again". Very reminiscent of programming speed controls, the hard way!

So I crossed my fingers and went over to my "Parallels" emulator running Windows XP . . . was able to install EagleTree 10.43 beta . . . found a compatible USB plug from my camera . . . and it all worked! Unchecked the "Flaperon Inputs Unmixed" box and now we have both sanity AND tranquility with the Guardian 2D/3D installed in an old Tribute FX.

I'm getting a minor down-elevator change of about 2deg when switching from Mode = OFF to Mode = 3D; and I get a minor right-rudder change of about 2deg when switching from Mode = OFF to Mode = 2D. Is this to be expected? Is there a way to fix it? Hope there is an answer.

Finally, out of curiosity, do you or anyone (billpa?) know why, on page 6, "Mounting Facing Backward. NO!!". I don't understand why it would make a difference.

Thanks again,
Bob
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 05:26 PM
LSF 004 - AMA 5055
bobandris's Avatar
United States, CA, Saratoga
Joined Dec 2000
589 Posts
How Do "Modes" Work?

Just a matter of curiosity. Since the Guardian 2D/3D has both 3-axis MEMS gyros AND 3-axis MEMS accels, how is this capability tied to the Guardian's Modes? Is 2D gyros only and 3D gyros + accels? Or vice-versa?

Bob
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Joined May 2010
987 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I'm pretty sure there was a post a while ago that stated the gain was a direct proportion from min-max. In your scenario, the gain would go from 0 at the low end to 40 at the high end. This would make sense. If it works as you described and you had the pots set for 100, max gain would then be 200% and that doesn't seem reasonable.

In practice it doesn't seem like it makes much difference which way it works. The master gain moves from 0 at one end to max at the other end, with max being determined by the pot settings. You probably want to do some test flights and adjust the pots so that when the master is at max, the gain is the highest you would ever want to use, but no higher. Then you can leave the pots alone and the master will allow a full range of adjustment in flight.

Edit:
It may be more accurate to say that the master goes from min-max where max is determined by the pots and your upper endpoint setting and min is determined by the pots and your lower endpoint setting. You could set it up, for instance, to have full travel on the gain knob go from 20%-70% with zero gain not reachable except by setting the mode channel to "off".
So really the "gain" knob is an attenuator knob?
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 08:16 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,475 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandris View Post
rico,

a BIG THANKS for your help.

I looked, on page 9 of the manual, at "Radio Stick Menu Operation" and about had a heart attack. As Yogi Berra said "It's deja vu all over again". Very reminiscent of programming speed controls, the hard way!

So I crossed my fingers and went over to my "Parallels" emulator running Windows XP . . . was able to install EagleTree 10.43 beta . . . found a compatible USB plug from my camera . . . and it all worked! Unchecked the "Flaperon Inputs Unmixed" box and now we have both sanity AND tranquility with the Guardian 2D/3D installed in an old Tribute FX.

I'm getting a minor down-elevator change of about 2deg when switching from Mode = OFF to Mode = 3D; and I get a minor right-rudder change of about 2deg when switching from Mode = OFF to Mode = 2D. Is this to be expected? Is there a way to fix it? Hope there is an answer.

Finally, out of curiosity, do you or anyone (billpa?) know why, on page 6, "Mounting Facing Backward. NO!!". I don't understand why it would make a difference.

Thanks again,
Bob
Hello Bob,
I'm glad you had your dual Aileron issue fixed (as I understood it from your note above) . Yes, you can program it using the Tx stick or the PC-based UI application. It's not really that difficult to use the Tx stick to program it onced you had it done once or twice... best way to do it in the field without bringing a laptop

As for the minor differences in the control surface neutral position when switching between modes, I did not really observed that in my bench testing. However, what I could suggest is to position your plane on the bench as close as it would be level when in flight. Once satisfied, you have to follow the procedure for 'Reset Level Flight and Trims' found in page-9 of the manual. This will update the Guardian with your trim and level flight informations.

Regarding the 'Mounting Facing Backward. NO!!' , I havent really tried to install it that way since my instant reaction is always to follow the manual . My guess is that doing so will get every gyro compensation reversed and it may also cause confusion within the unit's operation when interpreting the signal from the radio against the model's orientation. But that's only a guess and since I really hasn't tried that, I'll leave that for 'billpa' (ET) for better explanation.

Thanks,
Rico.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 08:28 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2001
2,625 Posts
I installed mine in my Easystar this evening. Setup was a cinch using the software. The EZ is sedate, but gets blown around in the wind, and I like to use it for AP. The Guardian replaced an FY20A. The FY worked fine, but I wanted something that took up less room. See the photo for size comparison. I hope to fly tomorrow, but it has been blistering hot here this week, with T-storms on the horizon this weekend.

Tony
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 08:45 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-turley View Post
I installed mine in my Easystar this evening. Setup was a cinch using the software. The EZ is sedate, but gets blown around in the wind, and I like to use it for AP. The Guardian replaced an FY20A. The FY worked fine, but I wanted something that took up less room. See the photo for size comparison. I hope to fly tomorrow, but it has been blistering hot here this week, with T-storms on the horizon this weekend.

Tony
The Heat Map doesn't look any better for tomorrow for a lot of the nation.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 08:51 PM
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I'm right under the "103" in WV.

Tony
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 09:20 PM
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USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,475 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadstick 8409 View Post
So really the "gain" knob is an attenuator knob?
I guess, you can look at it that way or as it is stated in the manual, it multiplies the individual gyro gains. I consider my master gain to be from 0% to 80% and it multiplies the gains set in the pots to get the overall gains for each gyro.

So for example, my pots right now are each set at around 60% and my master gain is at 1/4 the knob (20%) so my overall gain for each gyro is at around 12% (that's 60% multiplied by 20%).
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-turley View Post
I'm right under the "103" in WV.

Tony
I am under the 103 in Michigan. Supposed to cool down on Sunday which is perfect for a Club Fun Fly.

Bill
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 11:01 PM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,818 Posts
Okay so Am I blind or what? I just got mine today and I see no where about setting up the radio.
what settings do you need for off/2d/3d?

guess only way to use the gain knob is to have a 7 channel rx with a aux2 port. I am just using a 6 channel RX with just a channel 5 port open thats the MOD channel I guess.


yes I have flown my fathers pane with this installed but i never intalled one or set one up. he is in bed trying get this going for the AM

Thanks
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 11:16 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadstick 8409 View Post
So really the "gain" knob is an attenuator knob?
That's the way I see it.

What makes sense to me is to always have the upper tx setting, knob or switch, at 100% and adjust the pots to give the max usable gain at that setting. The lower tx setting could be 0% for a knob but since you have an "off" on the mode switch, it makes more sense to have the low tx setting for a knob at the minimum usable gain. This would yield the maximum resolution for the knob and still give complete access to the usable range.

For a switch, you would probably want the lower tx setting at a value less than 100% but still giving useful assistance. For instance, you might want the low switch position to represent the gain for high speed flight and the upper position (more gain) for low speed flight. To achieve these settings will require some in-flight experimentation, sneaking up on the max value from below, and will require setting the endpoints and possibly the subtrim of the gain channel.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 11:26 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epoweredrc View Post
guess only way to use the gain knob is to have a 7 channel rx with a aux2 port. I am just using a 6 channel RX with just a channel 5 port open thats the MOD channel I guess.
For the 2D-off-3D you would want to use a 3 position switch, typically the flap channel.

For the gain control with a 6 channel rx, there are two options, neither is ideal:
  • Use another switch as described in my last post. drawback; limits you to only two or possibly three gain settings.
  • Mix your knob channel to an available channel like gear. Drawback; it will only work right for one position of the gear switch, if you flip the switch it will make a drastic change in the gain.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:23 AM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,818 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
For the 2D-off-3D you would want to use a 3 position switch, typically the flap channel.

For the gain control with a 6 channel rx, there are two options, neither is ideal:
  • Use another switch as described in my last post. drawback; limits you to only two or possibly three gain settings.
  • Mix your knob channel to an available channel like gear. Drawback; it will only work right for one position of the gear switch, if you flip the switch it will make a drastic change in the gain.
Well i got it working, but its moving the controls backwards. guess need to rev something somewhere.
I forgot my RX does have a AUX channe guess can use that for gain control
should have said guess using speckturm radio

I downloaded the software and set the elevon mix. its in a foam delta type plane with a rudder
So I need to set like the flap channel switch for +100 0 and -100 for 3d/ off/ 2d?
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