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Old Feb 04, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Harry D's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Oct 2004
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RC Vector Kites proposal

This is a request for Jim Graham to reconsider the comment he made in the Site Complaints area: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...php?t=1382991: “I'm wondering if a kite forum has a place on an RC forum.” I cannot respond in the Site Complaints forum, so am doing it here.

That post was in connection with the proposed creation of a new forum for “RC Kites”: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381366.

Jim, at first sight and taken in isolation, your comment may appear to be valid (it does surprise me to see a moderator make such a comment in connection with a legitimate new forum proposal procedure, but we’ll let that pass).

I wonder whether you have ever had the time to look at what is involved here, and see the types of models and equipment that are being used and developed. These are not simple kites on strings, in the generally-understood sense of the word “kite”. They should, perhaps, be called something like “flexible-wing RC aircraft”. The most commonly used term is “vector kites” and a search on RCG and/or Google will give you some indication of what is being done in this new and very exciting field.

Here, for example, are just a few links:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1354564
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333679
www.crazyplanes.de/specials.htm

And some videos:
www.crazyplanes.de/deltaxxxl7.wmv
www.crazyplanes.de/bebopextreme.wmv
www.crazyplanes.de/deltaxxxl6.wmv

Clearly, these models are very much RC related. In fact, most of them require a great deal more skill, inventiveness, ingenuity, and effort than many more conventional types of RC models.

Even if that were not the case, I am having some difficulty understanding your comment in view of some of the other forums that exist on RCG and which you would have to agree are hardly RC related. Just a few examples: Free Flight. Control Line. Full-scale Automobiles. Frisbees (!). Boomerangs (!). And we won’t even mention Chit Chat or LTUP.

So, Jim, I would respectfully request that you take a few minutes to look into what is being discussed and proposed here, and ask you to consider rescinding your implication that these models have no place on RCG. Perhaps we might even get your support for the creation of the proposed new forum, so that these models would have a proper home on RCG and not have to be scattered all over the board as they are at present (in diverse forums such as "aerial photography", "night flying", "builder's workshop", “flying wings”, and others).

Thanks for reading this and (hopefully) giving the matter some thought and consideration.
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 02:44 PM
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jbourke's Avatar
United States, OR, Corvallis
Joined Nov 1998
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Harry,

I agree with you. The "Related Hobbies" section is the proper place for a kite forum. I enjoy stunt kites and I'm sure a lot of other r/c-ers do as well.

I think Jim's point was probably that it wouldn't be accepted by the users. I don't necessarily share that view. In any case, rest assured that if the forum is proposed and accepted via the proper process, the admins won't stand in the way.

Jim
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 04:58 PM
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Jim T. Graham's Avatar
United States, TN, Nashville
Joined Mar 2002
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Harry D - you are absolutely correct, that is an RC related kite! Thanks for the great links. I have seen these fly at an outdoor and indoor show. I guess when you said a kite forum I had the image of the kites we had as kids. These are very cool. I'm excited about the prospect of a forum related to these RC kites.
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Harry D's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
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Thank you

Thanks, Jim and Jim. I hope the new forum "gets off the ground".
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 05:57 PM
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"RC" can also stand for Remote-Controlled which a vectored kite certainly is. For me, if the wind is up I go slope soaring but I usually have a two-string delta not far away for when the wind isn't vectoring properly.

mw
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Malaysia, Selangor, Kajang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Wood View Post
"RC" can also stand for Remote-Controlled which a vectored kite certainly is. For me, if the wind is up I go slope soaring but I usually have a two-string delta not far away for when the wind isn't vectoring properly.

mw
Mark, I think like Jim you're misunderstanding the term "vector kite". Our vector kites don't have strings.
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Old Feb 04, 2011, 11:54 PM
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If they are R/C I would hope not. It would be somewhat redundant, no?

Please enlighten me on the term.

mw
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 09:30 AM
check the crazyplanes ...
flattermann's Avatar
Germany
Joined Dec 2006
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Hi Mark, enlightening always helps

I converted a big number of different kites to RC (and built some by my own) within the last 4 Years, for which I developped and used interchangeable 2D or 3D or 4D Vector-Units.

I think, the following might help to clear the subject, 'What Vector Kites are' :

I define a Vector Kite as an untethered flying RC-Object, using

- a flexible wing of all kind of usual kite constructions without control surfaces
- using kite technology (fabric, film, glasfibre and/or cf rods)
- using modern RC-technology and (brushless) electric motor(s) within a so called 'Vector Unit'
- a Vector Unit construction, based on a gimbel, or universal joint, or swashplate, or flextube, or 2 connected servos, that enables the pilot to control the propeller's flow direction in all directions (right, left, up, down, every degree between, as well as forward and backward .)

I call those RC-Kites as 'Vector Kites' since 2006.

Before I started in 2006, different Kite-To-RC-conversions existed - motorized or non-motorized - as kites of different shapes, using wing-warping or control-surfaces for steering.

As You can see: There exist 2 kind of 'Kite-to-RC-conversions', those, which are 'Vector Kites' as RC-Kites, and those, who use surfaces or wing-warping for steering.

@ Jim: I'm also excited about the prospect of a forum related to RC-Kite Conversions, as Vector-Kites, or non-Vector Kites.

But I also know about the problems, many traditional orientated Model-RC Aircrafter have with those strange looking, but RC-piloted flying objects:
No surfaces, no fuselages, no cabin, no pilot-puppet, not the real thing ...

For me, Vector Kites are a new kind of RC-Aircraft, opening a very different a n d interesting kind of piloting.
On the other side - and that might be the most interesting aspect - the use of the technique of an interchangeable Vector Unit allows to create completly different new flying objects -without control-surfaces - like no other.

In so far, Mark: Welcome to the world of Vector Kites!

flattermann
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Last edited by flattermann; Feb 05, 2011 at 10:15 AM. Reason: ... forgot one aspect
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 10:52 AM
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Treetop's Avatar
Tucker, Georgia, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Wood View Post
"RC" can also stand for Remote-Controlled which a vectored kite certainly is. For me, if the wind is up I go slope soaring but I usually have a two-string delta not far away for when the wind isn't vectoring properly.

mw
Them's control line kites.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 12:26 PM
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19 foot vector kite, flying indoors...

19 feet RC-Vectorkite Indoor (3 min 40 sec)
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 12:38 PM
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Someone needs to build one that looks like a Manta Ray, it moves so much like one.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 01:06 PM
check the crazyplanes ...
flattermann's Avatar
Germany
Joined Dec 2006
314 Posts
Hi treetop,

Hope, You will like this Vector Kite, which is one of my favourites:

www.crazyplanes.de/manta300wind.wmv

flattermann
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 01:27 PM
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I like! I was curious as to how they behaved outdoors. Seems to handle quite a bit of wind, which surprised me. The windmills in the background added a great deal to the video as proof of how well the wind was blowing. Also the kites early on did as well.

I always meant to get one of those I.F.O. kite-like planes, and I saved a thread where a guy built a large one. I will see if I can find it, it is several years old, but was something I was also interested in. Of course the IFO models have more plane like control surfaces.

Thanks for that flatterman!
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Old Feb 07, 2011, 01:08 PM
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Glad we got it all sorted out! Having fun is teh main thing, so thats all that really matters.
Was the original complaint from someone who thought we were proposing simple line kites? Or ... ? The post I was given a penalty point for was on the "Hawkeye" thread (an RC kite used for aerial photography). After that post, several of the Hawkeye owners joined our proposal for an RC Kite section, including the owner of the company and starter of the thread in question. So I'm still wondering what happened there. It was a bit upsetting to get penalized for trying to do something nice. I'd like to think it was just the result of busy mods on a large site not having all the background information. As a side, it may help to have some leniency on the idea of "cross-posting" when dealing with proposals of this kind (such as where there is no main heading for a section proposal to be subbed under).

In any case, happy flying!
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 12:25 PM
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Jim, or whoever was responsible for leaning the penalties against my account for this, I'd like a response please.
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