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Old Jan 24, 2007, 02:36 PM
David A Ramsey is offline
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3-bladed feathering autogyro head

I've been wanting a 3-bladed feathering spindled head/90 degree input swashplate controlled gyro for some time. I feel this little Gaui Hughes 300 might just be the answer to the parts requirement. First problem; They don't show parts.

http://shop.eflypower.com/shop/index.asp

Anyone know of this being sold in the U.S.A.?

The name Gaui is also linked to Wattage.
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Old Jan 24, 2007, 03:43 PM
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Order one for me too, will ya.
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Old Jan 24, 2007, 06:04 PM
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Thought you might like that.
Just got a return e-mail from efly asking what parts I wanted??? Hoping they can provide a parts diagram. Will post additional info.

Was thinking the swashplate might be 90 deg. input, but info says it comes with 4 servos which leads me to think it's 120 deg input. Although not sure what servos look like, 4 is a lot to pack in that tiny heli.
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Old Jan 24, 2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey

Was thinking the swashplate might be 90 deg. input, but info says it comes with 4 servos which leads me to think it's 120 deg input. Although not sure what servos look like, 4 is a lot to pack in that tiny heli.
It could be 90 or 120 and still be collective. 1 on the tail.
120 would be likely with the current trends in heli's.
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Old Jan 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
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Was hoping to get a parts diagram from efly, but only received a confirmation that the Huges uses 120 degree ccpm.

Then I spotted this:

http://www.mscompositusa.com/ecureui...out-motor.html

Think the overall size might be more useful.

Parts listed for the three bladed CH 46 Sea Knight are listed hear:

http://www.mscompositusa.com/editor/...soubor_292.pdf

On page 14.
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Old Feb 07, 2007, 03:34 PM
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MS Composits Hornet 3-blade system

I purchased this system from www.mscompositusa.com Part No. TE371. Cost from MS USA: $74.34.

The set I received was all composit nylon and included blade holders with ball bearings installed. It's complete down to the 120 deg. swashplate. The parts are well made with some nice touches, as the rotor hub is threaded for the 2m blade holder screws, the short 2m ball link connector stud has a screw driver slot in one end for easy installation, the 3mm dia. main shaft has a flat to receive the 3m grub screw for the rotor hub and the swashplate has a brass pivot ball. The parts are smaller than the Blade and GWS heli parts.

The only problem, for me, is I want a 90 deg. input swashplate. The 120 deg. SP could be used with 3 servos, but I'd rather use the third servo for a rudder. I ordered a 90 deg. lower SP replacement, MS part no. E041, but found it wasn't compatible, as in too small to fit the larger 120 deg. ball bearing. Looks like I'll have to make a lower SP ring to fit. At least MSC has 2m brass balls that are the same size as the molded balls.

There is some confusion between the MSC and the MSC USA Web site photos as to what you see for this rotor set. Then there's the photos on the Tower Hobbies Web Site that lists MSC Parts. There are 2 sets; TE370 & TE371. Henry at MSC USA said the difference was in the way the rotor head connected to the hub. But then between the 3 Web Sites I found 4 different photos of these parts. Henry says the parts are all composit and that's what I got from him. The photo showing the blue aluminum parts and the photo of the SP with brass balls is not available for now. Heck, I wanted the set with the aluminum parts for $75.00.

Ari, I hope this answers your question. And I'm interested in your autogyro blades and will send you a PM when I get to that point. Thank you
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Old Feb 08, 2007, 04:49 AM
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David,

my experiences with those ms-composit plastic parts weren't so hot. I used them on my G3P0 project and discontinued it because of them. Maybe I just treated those parts too rough, but sometimes blades will hit the ground, at least when I'm at the controls.

The blade holders are screwed into the rotor hub with M2 screws. The screws also act as an axle for the blade holders and get bent everytime a blde hits the ground, causing the rotor to unbalance. Be sure to take a lot of replacements with you when you go flying. The bending of the M2 screws has another effect. The outer ends of those little nubs the screws are screwed in will sort of mushroom out with mistreatment, and the circular surface, against which the blade holder is pressed, misaligns.

On the two-bladed version I used, the rotor hub was attached to the 3 mm shaft with a little pin, going through both hub and shaft. That meant you could only use ms-composit shafts with the predrilled hole, and I could easily bend them with my bare hands. I got quite good at rebending them, too.

Of the four blade holders I still have lying around, one is o.k., two have their balls glued back on, the joint strengthened with 1 mm piano wire drilled through the ball arm, and one has its ball completly ripped off. And on one of my two 120 swash plates, one of the lower ball arms had to bee reglued, too.

As to the 90 swashplate. The one that came with all the other parts I bought used from a friend has 3.8 mm balls, the same size as the balls on the on my 120 swashplate and the blade holders. If that should fit your needs, send me a pm.

Now for the good news. Late last year I stumbled across those aluminium tuning parts and they look much better. The rotor hub needs no hole in the shaft any more, which means you can now use real 3 mm steel for the shaft. And the balls are made out of brass and look as if they are there to stay.

One thing, though. When you have attached the aluminium blade holders to the hub, there's still an unfriendly gap of a little more than 0.5 mm between the outer rim of the blade holder and the hub, which gives the blade holder-hub connection room enough to bend again. Well, I've found two washers that nicely fill up this gap and now the M2 screw should only be stressed for tension, not for bending any more.

My advice for you is to use at least an aluminium rotor hub and blade holders. And if you make your lower SP ring out of aluminium, with brass balls fitted into the ring, your basic problems with this head should be gone.

Jochen
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Old Feb 08, 2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
David,

my experiences with those ms-composit plastic parts weren't so hot. I used them on my G3P0 project and discontinued it because of them. Maybe I just treated those parts too rough, but sometimes blades will hit the ground, at least when I'm at the controls.
Agreed, the parts are somewhat delicate for gyro blade strikes. But crashing is not an option... Hee, Hee, Hee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
The blade holders are screwed into the rotor hub with M2 screws. The screws also act as an axle for the blade holders and get bent everytime a blde hits the ground, causing the rotor to unbalance. Be sure to take a lot of replacements with you when you go flying. The bending of the M2 screws has another effect. The outer ends of those little nubs the screws are screwed in will sort of mushroom out with mistreatment, and the circular surface, against which the blade holder is pressed, misaligns.
Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
As to the 90 swashplate. The one that came with all the other parts I bought used from a friend has 3.8 mm balls, the same size as the balls on the on my 120 swashplate and the blade holders. If that should fit your needs, send me a pm.
The 90 deg. MSC (E041) lower swashplate ring, I have, is overall slightly smaller than the 120 deg., including the swashplate ball bearing. However, if your 90 deg. uses a 7 x 11 x 3 ball bearing, then maybe your's is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
Now for the good news. Late last year I stumbled across those aluminium tuning parts and they look much better. The rotor hub needs no hole in the shaft any more, which means you can now use real 3 mm steel for the shaft. And the balls are made out of brass and look as if they are there to stay.
And I have plenty of 3mm shafting rod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
One thing, though. When you have attached the aluminium blade holders to the hub, there's still an unfriendly gap of a little more than 0.5 mm between the outer rim of the blade holder and the hub, which gives the blade holder-hub connection room enough to bend again. Well, I've found two washers that nicely fill up this gap and now the M2 screw should only be stressed for tension, not for bending any more.
I've ordered the aluminum hub. What I've done to the plastic hub and will also do on the aluminun hub, is to mill a flat where the 4mm aluminum blade holder bushing seats against the hub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JochenK
My advice for you is to use at least an aluminium rotor hub and blade holders. And if you make your lower SP ring out of aluminium, with brass balls fitted into the ring, your basic problems with this head should be gone.Jochen
Agreed, I'm considering the aluminum blade holders too.

Thank you Jochen, I appreciate your thoughts, advice and swashplate offer.

David
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Old Feb 08, 2007, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
The only problem, for me, is I want a 90 deg. input swashplate. The 120 deg. SP could be used with 3 servos, but I'd rather use the third servo for a rudder.
David, why don't you want to use 120 CCPM? I find that on a new design, the most difficult angle to get right is the blade AoA. With a CCPM head you can experiment with that angle in the field.

Ari.
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Old Feb 08, 2007, 07:19 PM
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David,

Try contacting my good friend Perry Lee, at Aero-Micro.

email: info@aeromicro.com
web: http://www.aeromicro.com/

He is one of the US distributors for it. Got the following from his web site (http://www.aeromicro.com/GH100SE.htm):

Gaui Hobby 100SE Micro Heli
aka Shogun Midget Pro, Pixy Zap 100 Pro, Mini Zoom 100 Pro, Pocket Zoom Pro ......

U. S. Dealers wanted, please send email to info@aeromicro.com for details.

GH 100SE Micro Heli is one of the smallest 3D micro EP Helis available today. The length of the blade is 6 in (150 mm) and the diameter of the rotor is 14 in (355 mm). GH 100SE is 95% assembled from the factory with all ball bearing braced linkages, CNC machined aluminum Bell-Hiller rotor head, 120-degree swash-plate, belt driven tail, one-way bearing main gear. All servo mounts are optimally placed and adjustable to fit different sizes of servos.

The rigid structure of light weight CF frame makes the GH 100SE a top choice of most 3D micro heli pilots.

$199.99

Click here for Gaui 100SE replacement parts.

Recommended Components*:

Motor: Gaui Tornado Micro Brushless Outrunner Motor O411
ESC: Castle Creations Micro Phoenix-10 (Require JST Female Plug for Battery), or Gaui 10A ESC.
Battery: Gaui Hobby 2-Cell (7.4V) 800 mAh Li-Po Pack
Gyro: RC Mart NT-400 Heading Lock Gryo
Tail Servo: Futaba S3154 Digital Micro HT HS Servo x 1
Swashplate Servos: GWS Pico BB Servo x 3 (Requires Du-Bro 635 i.e. 4-40 Nylon Flat Washers as servo mount spacers)
Receiver: Castle Creation Berg 7P with case removed.
Antenna: Azarr Micro Receiver Antenna M-72-Indoor
*Disclaimers: The recommended components are based on our best knowledge and testing with the GH 100SE Micro Heli. AeroMicro is not responsible for any failure of parts for this combination. Modification of parts may void the manufacture warranty.

The following picture is a fully assembled GH 100SE.



Watch GH 100 (EP-100) video in Taiwan, and watch GH 100 (EP-100) video in Japan.

BTW, GH 100SE is the Superior Edition of the GH 100.

Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
I've been wanting a 3-bladed feathering spindled head/90 degree input swashplate controlled gyro for some time. I feel this little Gaui Hughes 300 might just be the answer to the parts requirement. First problem; They don't show parts.

http://shop.eflypower.com/shop/index.asp

Anyone know of this being sold in the U.S.A.?

The name Gaui is also linked to Wattage.
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Old Feb 09, 2007, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iter
David, why don't you want to use 120 CCPM? I find that on a new design, the most difficult angle to get right is the blade AoA. With a CCPM head you can experiment with that angle in the field.

Ari.
Ari, I'm not sure why 90 deg. input (outer swashplate ring) would be different than 120 deg. as far as adjusting AOA (rotor head angle of attack?). The only difference I see is that a 120 deg. input supports the swashplate equally when using collective pitch on helicopters.
If you mean AOA (as in seperate blade AOA for individual blades), then that is done with the ball links to each blade as the inner ring of the swashplate is at 120 deg. input to the blades.
In any case I'd rather use that third servo for the rudder. Plus it's a keep it simple stupid thing.
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Old Feb 09, 2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandris
David,

Try contacting my good friend Perry Lee, at Aero-Micro.

Bob

Thanks Bob, that's detailed information. She's a sweet little helicopter.
I like "small", but I've decided that the parts are just too small. For now I gonna work with the MSC Hornet and see how that turns out.

Great info!
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Old Feb 09, 2007, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
Ari, I'm not sure why 90 deg. input (outer swashplate ring) would be different than 120 deg. as far as adjusting AOA (rotor head angle of attack?). The only difference I see is that a 120 deg. input supports the swashplate equally when using collective pitch on helicopters.
Just out of curiosity, this is a collective pitch system, right?
Then the swashplate is free to float up and down.
If so with a 90 swashplate, it still takes 3 servos to anchor the swashplate up and down. That is unless you run two pushrods from the aileron servo, one to either side of the swashplate. Seems easier to just put the other servo on and have control over the overall pitch electronically rather than having to take off all three links and adjust each one each time.
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Old Feb 09, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnowell129
Just out of curiosity, this is a collective pitch system, right?
Then the swashplate is free to float up and down.
If so with a 90 swashplate, it still takes 3 servos to anchor the swashplate up and down. That is unless you run two pushrods from the aileron servo, one to either side of the swashplate. Seems easier to just put the other servo on and have control over the overall pitch electronically rather than having to take off all three links and adjust each one each time.
Yes, can be used that way.

What are you using to lock down 90 deg. on your GWS swashplates?

Seems I've caused some confusion here?
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Old Feb 09, 2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
What are you using to lock down 90 deg. on your GWS swashplates?

Seems I've caused some confusion here?
Perhaps the cofusion is about fixed vs. collective heads?

Fixed pitch heads (like the GWS, for example) use 2 servos for cyclic. Collective heads use 3 servos, and let you controll collective pitch in addition to cyclic aileron and elevator. There are different arrangements for a 3-servo, collective head, like 90+independent collective, 180 degree CCPM etc. The important part is that they all let you change collective pitch in flight or on the ground, uniformely and precisely, without bending anything on your model, and they all use 3 servos to control the swashplate. You can bastardize a 90 collective head into a fixed one by replacing the collective servo with a piece of rod, though both Mickey and I are not sure why one would want to :=)


Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
Ari, I'm not sure why 90 deg. input (outer swashplate ring) would be different than 120 deg. as far as adjusting AOA (rotor head angle of attack?). The only difference I see is that a 120 deg. input supports the swashplate equally when using collective pitch on helicopters.
If you mean AOA (as in seperate blade AOA for individual blades), then that is done with the ball links to each blade as the inner ring of the swashplate is at 120 deg. input to the blades.
I meant "blade AoA" as in "collective pitch."
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Ramsey
In any case I'd rather use that third servo for the rudder.
Are you limited to 3 servos in your system? Surely you could use 3 for the head and a 4th for rudder?

Ari.
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