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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:14 PM
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United States, WI, Milwaukee
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Originally Posted by Bivens View Post
Um....remember all of that RIGHT thrust in the firewall to minimize rudder "work" in upright flight.....

So, yes....Left rudder becomes necessary in many inverted or negative pitch change maneuvers....

Waterfalls

Inverted harriers

Inverted negative pulls to vertical from inverted level

Anything slow and inverted...or negative pitch changes...or rapid throttle up when inverted......all need left rudder

A good observation on your end for sure....many people take a while to notice it at all....and a long time to learn this left rudder relationship when inverted....just keep it in mind and suddenly the plane's behavior makes sense.
Ah, makes sense. Yeah, I give sharp left rudder when coming in slow inverted and pulling up sharply into a hover (with a blip of power). Never made the connection in inverted harrier.

Awesome - thanks!!!

Mike
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:28 PM
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Yep...the combination of right thrust, P-factor, and gyroscopic precession....all are going against the norm when we do that inverted push thing to hover....takes a LOT of left, doesn't it...and that's all proportional to the throttle...isn't it...
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bivens View Post
Yep...the combination of right thrust, P-factor, and gyroscopic precession....all are going against the norm when we do that inverted push thing to hover....takes a LOT of left, doesn't it...and that's all proportional to the throttle...isn't it...
It sure does Quite a bit!
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 10:46 PM
mdv
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Doesn't make sense to me that inverted requires more left rudder than upright. Maybe I need to think about it more but the prop is still rotating the same way relative to the airframe so torque is the same. I have never notice inverted requiring more left rudder on other planes. I haven't built my 58 yet.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 10:52 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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Same on any plane...

SteveT
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 04:13 AM
Your mother.
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Joined Jan 2011
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Took the Edge up with a pair of 3S 2200s last night to see how it would do.
5 minutes of gentle(ish) flying gave me 68% left, I couldn't believe it.

It's always been a porker on 4000s but would follow through on hard moves nicely with the extra weight.
The lighter setup on 2200 turned this plane into a big old foamie, it'll get a lot more stick time now.
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mdv View Post
Doesn't make sense to me that inverted requires more left rudder than upright. Maybe I need to think about it more but the prop is still rotating the same way relative to the airframe so torque is the same. I have never notice inverted requiring more left rudder on other planes. I haven't built my 58 yet.
Do you try inverted harrier on a straight line for long period of time? If so, you will find you need left rudder a lot of time. Also, it's more pronounced when you step up to bigger planes and props.
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 12:04 PM
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Yep...trying to work this out in your mind....left rudder, right thrust....inverted.....takes a while to build the mental picture....but it's the same on all planes with a standard rotation prop.....sometimes you just get used to it and don't notice...but it's there...
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince_TT View Post
Do you try inverted harrier on a straight line for long period of time? If so, you will find you need left rudder a lot of time. Also, it's more pronounced when you step up to bigger planes and props.
+1

Yeah this through me off as well. I don't remember this being very pronounced on my 47" SHP. But both the 57 Extra and 58 Edge do it much more significantly and is why I have been noticing it so much.

Mike
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Bivens View Post
Yep...trying to work this out in your mind....left rudder, right thrust....inverted.....takes a while to build the mental picture....but it's the same on all planes with a standard rotation prop.....sometimes you just get used to it and don't notice...but it's there...
Yep, I've wondered why too. Now it's been explained it's obvious
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 07:52 AM
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:(

Hopefully she goes back together straight and true.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 08:44 AM
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Gah!

I'm trying to repair her but kitty isn't letting me.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 09:33 AM
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United States, WI, Milwaukee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bivens View Post
Um....remember all of that RIGHT thrust in the firewall to minimize rudder "work" in upright flight.....

So, yes....Left rudder becomes necessary in many inverted or negative pitch change maneuvers....

Waterfalls

Inverted harriers

Inverted negative pulls to vertical from inverted level

Anything slow and inverted...or negative pitch changes...or rapid throttle up when inverted......all need left rudder

A good observation on your end for sure....many people take a while to notice it at all....and a long time to learn this left rudder relationship when inverted....just keep it in mind and suddenly the plane's behavior makes sense.
Just another big thanks! Weather finally cooperated today and was able to get out. This post helped me immensely today as I new in advance what was going on and after coming over the top near stall and going inverted I got on the left rudder as soon as it was almost flat and got some great inverted harriers without rotation (still have some work to do ). Better waterfalls as well.

Very cool - THANKS!!!

Mike
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Old Jul 22, 2014, 07:44 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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For those running 5S, in case it might be of interest, a new battery box/holder to make it easier to get the batteries far enough forward to get your CG where you want it and still be easy to strap in...

And though only a small 4S pack would fit in this holder if there is interest, I can design and have made one to work with 4S

SteveT.
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