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Old Nov 23, 2014, 08:57 PM
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Question
Favorite Scale 3D/Aerobats betw. 900-1200mm?

Hey folks, I've been shopping for a 3D-capable scale (non-EPP) foamie around 40" wingspan that will fly well on 3S, but I'm not finding much out there. Anything like an Edge, Extra, MXS, Sbach, Yak, Sukhoi, etc. would do. Horizon's new Sukhoi SU-26M would fit the bill, but I really don't like the color scheme. And their Carbon-Z Yak is a bit too rich for my blood. I'm pretty new to 3D, so superior performance isn't required, but it must be capable. Dynam & FMS have some nice looking aerobats, but they are a little bigger than I'm hoping to find, as transporting them becomes more of an issue for me, and I'd like to make better use of my 3S packs. But, since I'm having trouble finding anything else, I may have to make that compromise.

Are there any models like this that you would recommend/suggest?

Thanks.
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 06:34 AM
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We can help you better if you explain why you prefer EPO? Do you think it's stiffer or something?
Many EPP models have plywood interior or my favorite - carbon interior.
I think this is maybe why you have few replies, people don't know where your coming from?
Zeta Science make a very good EPO model and the wings come off for transport. It is called a 3D Extreme.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2233569
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 05:51 PM
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Parkzone Visionair
10 13 2014 Low flat spins with Hover Landing with VA (3 min 5 sec)
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 06:46 PM
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Airfoilz Depron foamies..
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 08:07 PM
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Since you're new at 3d I'd suggest something that excels at 3d, not something just 3d capable. The full fuse 38" Skywings are a good bet. Most epo models are going to be on the heavy side which are usually harder to fly slow. The gyro equipped ones should work pretty well too.
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 08:32 PM
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Thanks for the responses, guys. Sorry I didn't use the correct terms to explain myself more clearly. I'm not specifically against EPP, but meant to say I'm looking for a "full fuse" model that looks more scale than the profile ones. My 3D experience so far is with the UMX Beast 3D and an FT-3D (Flite Test) full fuse model I built from foam board. After flying a few years, and experimenting with those two models this summer, I think I'm ready to dabble with the more scale aerobats. I just need to ease into them at this point. Dale's recommendation of a Visionare fits the general type of model I'm looking for. One of my flying buddies actually owns two of them, because he likes them so much. So, I know it's a great flyer. Anything else you're aware of?

Art-tech doesn't seem to be very popular, but I stumbled across this thread/announcement for a new model that looks really intriguing. But I can't find any details on it and don't know if it's actually available stateside.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2275130
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 09:43 PM
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I waited about 6 weeks for the Purple color to come back into stock, but you might check out Wattaplane's 38" Edge........or their Slick.......or their sBach.

http://usa.wattaplane.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=187


One of several videos:
Skywing 38" Edge 540T EPP - The Best Small Plane I Have Ever Flown (3 min 32 sec)
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Garyss View Post
I waited about 6 weeks for the Purple color to come back into stock, but you might check out Wattaplane's 38" Edge........or their Slick.......or their sBach.
Thanks, Gary. That's very interesting, and looks like it flies great. I didn't know anyone made such a model, as in full fuse EPP. I think you have good taste, too, as my favorite is also the purple one! These are now on my watch list. Since you own one, do you have any additional advice or comments on it?
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 12:24 AM
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Gary, After watching a build video of a Skywing EPP, I see it actually has a wooden frame. How durable is this plane relative to a balsa build? I'm not really ready to go with anything balsa-like yet, as I'm sure to have some mishaps and don't have any experience fixing anything except foam.

From the videos, this plane looks like it flies a lot like my FT-3D, which is super cheap and a blast, but though it's also full-fuse, it's a simpler, non-scale design. For anyone not averse to foam board scratch building, I highly recommend it.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 05:18 AM
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Mmmmm but the vision air is not scale
Seems you don't know what you really want, but that's cool, and why you asked the question.
OK, you need to decide which is the most important to you, a good 3D trainer, or something that looks cool. Because the short of it is,,, the order of durability is... :-

Best to worst
1 Profile fuse with EPP block sides with carbon runners (HK Gee Bee 3D 1000mm)

2 'Box' EPP with inner block of EPP and carbon runners (HK Extra 300S Indestru)

3 Profile fuse, no EPP block sides but with carbon runners inset (TechOne Yak 54 1100mm)

4 'Box' EPP with plywood subframe (HK Yak 54 3D EPP 960mm)

5 Full Fuse EPP with plywood subframe (Skywing 38" 48" 55" planes)

6 Balsa planes

As you can see, you can still get scale looking planes in profile and you need to consider this:-
They KE better because of the greater fuse side area (and flat).
Yes everybody will argue about what is the most durable from their experiences, i have flown all these variants above by various manufacturer's and is my take on many crashes
AFWIW box designs fly much better than full fuse designs, and don't they all look the same in the air anyway?
The Extra in this video has had hundreds, yes hundreds of crashes and hasn't even a ripped elevator. Not mentioned is it is the LIGHTNESS which makes a plane durable as well as the design
Best 3D Flying Bubba Bacon Hucking On The Sticks (5 min 37 sec)
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 07:16 AM
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Good information Harlem. Well laid out. Also nice flying presentation, too.

In your opinion is the basic structure of the Skywing/Wattaplane 38" full bodied model able to stand up to crashes and survive from say 6 to 8 feet altitude?

I realize the epp cowl is vulnerable. Ground smacks such as......flops out of torque rolls.........knife edges touching the ground,etc???
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 07:41 AM
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I would like to add every plane on Harlem' s list is a better actual 3D trainer then the visionair. Your friends might like it and it will do 3D kind of ok, but not as good as any epp profile. Trust me your best bet is to get an epp plane. I know they don't have the cool factor that you want. They are a blast to fly. Once you get one and start flying it you will look right past the looks. Actuly they might start to grow on you. Then you can go strait from the epp plane to the king of cool and get a balsa. I recemend the extreme flight edge 48 or 60 inch once you go that route.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregertman View Post
I would like to add every plane on Harlem' s list is a better actual 3D trainer then the visionair. Your friends might like it and it will do 3D kind of ok, but not as good as any epp profile. Trust me your best bet is to get an epp plane. I know they don't have the cool factor that you want. They are a blast to fly. Once you get one and start flying it you will look right past the looks. Actuly they might start to grow on you. Then you can go strait from the epp plane to the king of cool and get a balsa. I recemend the extreme flight edge 48 or 60 inch once you go that route.
+1
I love the Skywing 38" Slick, it is the most fun flying plane PERIOD, i have several videos flying them. But i wouldn't have another 38" Skywing model. There are too many problems with them. Firstly the wings break very easily due to only having one singular weak wooden spar! Secondly they flex too much, they are OK for a few flights, but after a while they become 'spongy' (tail bends and twists) due to the thin foam and little latitudinal structural support. Thirdly if it is hot, problem 2 is tenfold! Fourthly the thin EPP tears very easily and while easily repairs, each tear/repair makes problems 2, 3 and 4 worse twentyfold.
As Greg? said, while learning 3D you are gunna hit the deck a lot and you need something which will laugh at the punishment. I would buy a twisted hobbys MXS-C or some profile such as a HK Gee Bee 1000mm, then move on to whatever whatever you fancy
Ohhh i never mentioned EPO in my list as i have little experience with them. However there is a reason for this,,,, i had aHK mini Saturn EPO and it only last 9 flights. The EPO when crashed under compression kinda deforms badly and is hard to put right. Whereas EPP springs back better and if not is easier to repair. I think this is why i have stayed away from them since and i know other Guy's also who don't like them. But maybe i am wrong here, i don't have much experience with them.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 12:57 PM
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Yep the epo is harder to fix if you crash wrong. Sometimes it just rips then its not bad but when it gets crushed then it sucks. Buy the way the pz sukoi su29 is a fantastic extreme arobatics plane after you replace the receiver and servos and prop. But a flat out horrible 3D plane. Unless you are realy experienced with 3D. It will do it but its not easy at all. It's very difficult to hover and harrier. Does a ok elivator and waterfalls
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 09:52 PM
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Thanks, all. Lots of good feedback! Yes, it's true. I do seek more of the "cool" factor with this plane, which happens to be why I said it doesn't need to be a superior 3D model, and why I haven't gotten a Visionaire. That particular plane appears to have the level of aerobatic capability and build-type that I'm interested in, but I don't care for its (very non-scale) appearance. I apologize for not summing up all my desires in more detail. I was pretty sure I knew what I wanted, but you've actually got me questioning myself now!

I'm not really seeking a 3D trainer either, per se, and recognize that the profile EPPs are arguably the best choice in that genre. Don't get me wrong, I have interest in those models too, and you are all convincing me that I would enjoy flying one. Those Skywing EPPs really caught my eye, as I think they have a good look, and appear to fly very nicely. Harlem's comments about their durability is concerning me though. I have virtually no experience with EPP or Depron, but have been repairing my EPO planes for several years now, so I'm pretty comfortable with that. I've also come to recognize the effects of weight on performance and durability, which is one of the reasons I'd like something near 1000mm.

I've come to the conclusion that there isn't a single plane that's going to fit everything on my wish list. So, my primary goal is still to find something with scale-like "cool" factor, that is highly aerobatic, though maybe not quite true 3D (i.e., PZ Sukhoi?). But I'm also interested in learning more about the 3D options out there. Again, those Skywing EPPs really appeal to me on that front. The wooden subframe concerned me first, but it sounds like that is strong. So, now it's their other weaknesses scaring me away.

Assuming I've made myself a little clearer -- and maybe come to understand myself a little better -- any more thoughts?
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