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Old Oct 20, 2012, 03:12 AM
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Slovakia
Joined Nov 2009
57 Posts
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Originally Posted by fly-up85 View Post
Hello Larry

This is my ballast solution for Aspire , this is my heavy plane for windy conditions 2,2kg . Each tube have 10 x 340mm in dural have 60g each , in brass 150g each tube . Power unit Mega 16/35/3 direct drive for heavy plane 2,2 kg and Mega 16/25/4 direct drive for light plane 1,85k kg .

BM


I use 3s 1100 or 1300 mAh Hyperion 45C , props diameter for this motor 300/200 . 16/35/3 haven t problem with full balastet plane 2,7m . Clibing is 10-15m/s depend on if plane is ballasted or no .


BM
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 04:51 AM
mostly gliders
liukku's Avatar
SkellefteŚ, Sweden
Joined Sep 2003
924 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly-up85 View Post
I use 3s 1100 or 1300 mAh Hyperion 45C , props diameter for this motor 300/200 . 16/35/3 haven t problem with full balastet plane 2,7m . Clibing is 10-15m/s depend on if plane is ballasted or no .


BM
Thank you fly-up85 for the info, very exciting combination, very interesting as almost everyone else seems to prefer geared motors. Worth thinking about.

/Ville
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 10:14 AM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Israel
Joined Nov 2006
744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly-up85 View Post
props diameter for this motor 300/200 . 16/35/3 haven t problem with full balastet plane 2,7m . Clibing is 10-15m/s depend on if plane is ballasted or no .


BM
Thanks for the answer, it give me an interesting direction to think about for next season

By 300/200 do you mean 12X8?
In that case - Mega 16/35/3 direct drive with 12X8 and 3S battery, is this correct?
And the Mega 16/25/4 direct drive with the same prop and battery?
How heavy can you launch the plane (assuming you ballast the 1.85 kg model)
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Slovakia
Joined Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by roydor View Post
Thanks for the answer, it give me an interesting direction to think about for next season

By 300/200 do you mean 12X8?
In that case - Mega 16/35/3 direct drive with 12X8 and 3S battery, is this correct?
And the Mega 16/25/4 direct drive with the same prop and battery?
How heavy can you launch the plane (assuming you ballast the 1.85 kg model)
Hi Roy


Sorry for mistake, on 16/353 i use 12/8 and smaller 16/25/4 use 11/6,5 . Batery are same .
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 05:56 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,864 Posts
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Originally Posted by Larry Jolly View Post
Great Job Steve,
Please let me know when I can pick up that motor box combination. Let me know when you are going to fly I will go out with you.
Don are you coming down to the TNT???
Good luck with your model Tom.
By the way in my build I cut the Red wire on the ICE ESC because I ran a separate RX pack. I now advise you to leave the ESC intact so that you can program the ESC from a computer. So cut the wire on the CAM side of the junction. LJ
Another alternative is to use a very short extension with the wire cut that the esc plugs into.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 06:25 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 1999
7,291 Posts
I got my Aspire in the air today--two flights. Flies great! I used a 17.5/17.5 F5B prop since I had not made the 20/12 prop yet. Even with the wrong prop the climb is quite fast and steep--4 seconds of motor puts you up at enough height for good thermal hunting. Based on what it took to recharge the battery after the flights a 5S 1600mah battery will give you about 1 minute full power. The power setup is:
1110/1.5Y/6.7 motor
1600mah 5S
17.5/17.5 Neu/Pils prop(F5B)

This setup is around 1000 watts--with the 20/12 it should be up around 1500. The low power setup might be OK ---but more power is more fun with a plane like this.

Steve
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 10:10 PM
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so. cal.
Joined Jan 2006
2,587 Posts
Steve, were you able to weigh it? I know Larry's ALES powered setup was designed for that event and was not high powered but certainly more than powerful enough for the event since they have a 30 second time to climb window, Larry was hitting max altitude around 18 to 20 seconds as I recall.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:06 PM
BANNED!!!
soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,675 Posts
Steve, which 1600s are you using for your aspire?

Thanks,

Jay
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
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Great Job Steve,
I am glad you are enjoying the Aspire. Many thanks for your contributions to this segment of the hobby. Larry
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 1999
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Originally Posted by soholingo View Post
Steve, which 1600s are you using for your aspire?

Thanks,

Jay

I used these cells--the 5S fits easily. http://www.neumotors.com/store/page4/index.html

Steve
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:44 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 1999
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Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
Steve, were you able to weigh it? I know Larry's ALES powered setup was designed for that event and was not high powered but certainly more than powerful enough for the event since they have a 30 second time to climb window, Larry was hitting max altitude around 18 to 20 seconds as I recall.

I have not weighed it yet--was more interested in flying. I will when I get a chance.

Larry and I started flying electric with planes that had just "enough" power. There is no doubt that you can make a clean efficient plane like the Aspire fly with low power setups. I got past that point along time back--I want "more power" in my planes these days F5B planes can climb to 800 feet in under 3 seconds

I see little advantage to a few ounces less weight in a plane the size of the Aspire in anything other than 7am still air flying. With any wind and lift the higher weight becomes a advantage.

Steve Neu
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 02:00 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu View Post
I have not weighed it yet--was more interested in flying. I will when I get a chance.

Larry and I started flying electric with planes that had just "enough" power. There is no doubt that you can make a clean efficient plane like the Aspire fly with low power setups. I got past that point along time back--I want "more power" in my planes these days F5B planes can climb to 800 feet in under 3 seconds

I see little advantage to a few ounces less weight in a plane the size of the Aspire in anything other than 7am still air flying. With any wind and lift the higher weight becomes a advantage.

Steve Neu
Steve,

Both ALES and F5J begin your flight time when the plane leaves the pilot's hand. This means that a 10 second motor run spots a plane which uses its entire 30 second motor run by 20 seconds. In addition, there are some indications that skilled flyers are able to hunt for thermals during a slower climb. Surely, that remains to be seen.

ALES rules are fairly specific in their intent to prevent a plane from realizing a launch altitude advantage as a consequence of high launch velocities (zooms). I discovered with my 750 watt Supra that to stay within the maximum launch tolerance that I had to set my launch cut off altitude to around 185 meters.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 04:52 PM
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United States, CA, Granite Bay
Joined Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Steve,

Both ALES and F5J begin your flight time when the plane leaves the pilot's hand. This means that a 10 second motor run spots a plane which uses its entire 30 second motor run by 20 seconds. In addition, there are some indications that skilled flyers are able to hunt for thermals during a slower climb. Surely, that remains to be seen.

ALES rules are fairly specific in their intent to prevent a plane from realizing a launch altitude advantage as a consequence of high launch velocities (zooms). I discovered with my 750 watt Supra that to stay within the maximum launch tolerance that I had to set my launch cut off altitude to around 185 meters.

Happy Landings,

Don
Hi Don,

I have to say I enjoy your posts and value the information.

My club, SVSS here in Calif., is finishing up our first full season of ALES this coming saturday. Including last years contests and our two day event we now have had about 15 days of ALES contest flying experience and the more I fly ALES the more I like it. I havent really noticed anyone hunting or catching thermals during the 30 second motor run, I know I havent been able to actually discern my sailplane hitting a thermal during the run, unlike TD winch tows where I have often been able to see that I have hit a thermal during the tow. Maybe this is due to the angle of climb and distance or the effect of power on flight, or maybe because I am not climbing a steady arc like on a winch line but rather varying my angle of climb depending on where I want to go on launch, not sure. I think most people strategize before the flight with a definate destination in mind or a definate competitor to shadow, do I stick with the pack or go "lone wolf", etc. The high power setup advantage (other than being simply more fun) is in more options, like the ability to range out to that far bird circling or beat upwind to catch a known wave or for a more advantageous position to ride any thermals found back downwind.

Steve
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 05:30 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Israel
Joined Nov 2006
744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
In addition, there are some indications that skilled flyers are able to hunt for thermals during a slower climb. Surely, that remains to be seen.
Don,

Iíve been flying an Electrified F3J I had built in F5J for a couple of months with a really low power setup, around 350-400 watts for a 2.1 kg, 3.45 meter model.
My model is setup so that itís rather stable in pitch (I prefer a fairly forward CG).
During practice Iíve noticed that while the prop is turning, my stability margin is reduced substantial and when I go through lift I get a very distinctive and easily recognizable change in pitch, almost always pitching up.
In the past I had a bigger battery (more cells) on the same motor with a different prop for fun flying (around 800 watts) and I didnít see the same behavior as the strong pull of the motor masked any of the pitching I see now.
My tactic for the last two F5J competitions I competed in was full throttle for 5-10 seconds to reach a reasonable altitude and then throttle down and level off to fly fast to where I think there is a thermal and then throttle down some more and wait for the model to pitch up, indicating where the thermal is. By how strongly the model pitches up I decide if I can spiral down under power and then shut off the motor, gaining some F5J points, or throttle up to get more altitude if itís too light an air.
I find that at full throttle (350-400 watts) the model also indicates lift but not as well as at half power.

Roy
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 06:02 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekBiker View Post
Hi Don,

I have to say I enjoy your posts and value the information.

My club, SVSS here in Calif., is finishing up our first full season of ALES this coming saturday. Including last years contests and our two day event we now have had about 15 days of ALES contest flying experience and the more I fly ALES the more I like it. I havent really noticed anyone hunting or catching thermals during the 30 second motor run, I know I havent been able to actually discern my sailplane hitting a thermal during the run, unlike TD winch tows where I have often been able to see that I have hit a thermal during the tow. Maybe this is due to the angle of climb and distance or the effect of power on flight, not sure. Mostly people strategize before the flight with a definate destination in mind or a definate competitor to shadow, etc. I find the high power setup advantage (other than being simply more fun) is in the ability to range out to that far bird circling or beat upwind to catch a known wave or for a more advantageous position to ride any thermals found back downwind.

Steve
Fair enough observations. And I am certainly not capable (yet) of finding lift during the climb. My ill-fated Supra (at 750 watts) was capable of flying OOS to 200 meters into any wind that I would fly in. At the other extreme, my Maxa (at 450 watts) does not quite give me the performance into the wind that I would like. It does otherwise launch more than adequately. I will be bumping it up to 600 watts or so as soon as Steve gets me my new motor

I have noticed that as I spend more time practicing controlled ascents that I am becoming better able to observe the plane's reaction to the air it flies through. And even if I am not able to "see" thermals, setting the plane up so it launches smoothly with little or no pilot input allows me to see more of what else is going on.

I have observed that there is some value in matching propellers to fit your plane and launch style. Overpitched props will sometimes eat more power without increasing useful climb rates. On the other hand, you can get more bang per watt with a little more pitch and a little less diameter if you plan to employ a shallow launch. Regardless of whether I am flying a relatively higher or lower power plane, I have come to prefer the shallowest launch path that will get me to altitude in the amount of time that I want to allocate to get to full altitude -- and with an absolute minimum of control input. This allows me to launch in a particular direction and and turn enough to get a bit of a profile view of the plane. This makes it much easier to detect the instant of motor shutoff and avoid losing altitude to stalling. In addition, I have logged a number of launches and, for what it is worth, I consistently realize full flying altitudes which are 5 to 10 meters higher with a 45 degree or less approach prior to motor shut-off than with nearly vertical launches.

I still remain unconvinced that having more power than it takes to fly OOS into the wind to your target altitude provides any really useful benefit. It CAN result in having to actually fly longer than your competitors (especially if you are getting into the 8 second launch range). And it reduces the opportunity to "shadow" a competitor if you are flying much faster than he is.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Happy Landings,

Don
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