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Old Aug 28, 2011, 10:00 AM
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United States, PA
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Help!
Blade 400. Best upgrades for stabilty not 3D

Good morning All.
I have 2 B400, hovered them both for the last 2 years, repaired them both repeatedly and am completely and utterly frustrated by their instability and difficulty to fly. My own experience is that of an intermediate fixed wing sport plane jocky. For rotary wing I started with the CX2, then mSR and now have almost mastered a 120SR,
I can hover the B400 in about a 6to10ft square..with a lot of concentration. No fun.Pure hell.
I have read many posts and beleive its tiemot either upgrade or trash and start over.My instinct tells me to lose the EF110 in favour of what please?? Futaba 401, Jr 270, HK401,or GY48 plus what for digital MG servos. I am using the Tx set up of a vdeo foir my DX61 and ahve all the expo removed as otherwise for me it seems too slugish and is halfway across the parking lot before she seems to respon to my commands.
Can any of you please provide me with suggestions for upgrading my B400 with new Gyros, servos, settings, or go for say a Mini Titan or even an HK450 or 500. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Ancient Pete.
BTW, I am in no way interested in any 3D, just figure 8 and no extra peices would make my day.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 10:33 AM
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KDS Flymentor.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 11:32 AM
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hi doesnt horzion list tx settings for this ?sounds like you have too low settings
on right stick to start,not sure what a vdeo is,think mabe you meant a video
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mdugas View Post
hi doesnt horzion list tx settings for this ?sounds like you have too low settings
on right stick to start,not sure what a vdeo is,think mabe you meant a video
Thanks fmdgas for the response.Yes my fat fingers got in the way. I did mean video.I have also used the settings that HH provided. She seems mighty sensative, if I try for the T manouver, I.E. side ways movement, I have a very hard time keeping Mr. Gravity at bay. From what I have read the EF110 is pretty poor excuse for a gyro. Thats why I was thinking of upgrading this first. What are yoru suggestions here please.
I saw the other gusy suggestionof KDS. Wow talk about automatic flight. But thats a Cadilac of a system for what $600. It hurts bad enough when I trash a used $250 model. Maybe I can buy the KDS gyro and use it on my B400?? Or am I being to cheap and expecting too much from the B400. Comments.
Please from both of yrou.Thanks again for your initial response.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GetterDragun View Post
KDS Flymentor.
Hi GetterDragun. Thanks for your response.I went to the site and watched the video. WOW and wow again. Automatic flight at its best. Do you have one of these wonderful machines? Do you think maybe just getting the KDS gyro would solve my dilema? Thanks again for your time.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Pete View Post
Hi GetterDragun. Thanks for your response.I went to the site and watched the video. WOW and wow again. Automatic flight at its best. Do you have one of these wonderful machines? Do you think maybe just getting the KDS gyro would solve my dilema? Thanks again for your time.
Yea, they are a little difficult to setup, but they really work great. I don't know where you saw $600, but I think they are around $70 now. Even check the classifieds here, you can get them for around $60.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 06:41 PM
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He's probably thinking of a skookum 720 those are in the 400$ region ....
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 06:54 PM
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First ,, I didn't read all post,So,,, I have a friend with two 400 .. One to try and learn on and the other for parts!! LOL
The first thing if I had one... Get a Futaba 401 gyro... After a year of trying to hover my friend,,, finely took my advice ... And put a Futaba 401 on one of this birds....!!! Wow he is now flying!!!! And even thinking about up grading to a Align Trex 550 e FBL V2 with 3GX gyro...!
Next,, it comes with cheap servo .. Put Hitec 65 metal gear.... I have a Trex 450 V2 with over 2000 flight on it... Same Futaba 401 and same Hitec 65 in it....!
Next,,,,, STOP USING THERE BAD MAIN BLADES!!! Put spacers and run Trex 450 wood 325 main blades...
With good setup in your radio.. on setting this is all you should need.......!!!
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Mississauga, Ont., Can.
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The new gyro that is part of the Blade 450 is worth the money they want for it. I changed my servos to JR 285's on the cyclic and it has an Align DS 420 on the tail. The call to ditch the original wood blades is on the money. Go with Align 325's and you will see the difference. As to the setup, you will need to change servo directions when you upgrade to th JR's and you may need to do that with others. The TX setup is going to be the Achilles heel of your setup as the factory one is way too mushy on low rate and has no room for error at high rate. It is easy to change it up but don't get all worked up about exact percentages for each setting, as they are a personal thing to everyone and no one's setup is perfect for the rest of the world. A number of us can point you in the right direction once you have upgraded your mechanics.

DON'T put cheap servos and gyros on and think you are saving money because it's those cheapies that end up costing you in the long run. I put a lot of upgrades on my 400 and was well worth the money as it flys as nicely as my T-Rex 450 Pro. I have never put carbon blades on it and don't see the need as it is such a nice flying helicopter just the way it is. I forgot one item you may want to upgrade once you get better with it and that is the ESC. You could put a CC 35A on it or even what I did and that was the E-Flite 40A Pro. It never gets even warm to the touch and the separate switch to turn on the electronics is a nice bonus. Hope this helps.

Don
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GetterDragun View Post
Yea, they are a little difficult to setup, but they really work great. I don't know where you saw $600, but I think they are around $70 now. Even check the classifieds here, you can get them for around $60.
Hi GetterDragun.
I took your suggestion and googled the KDS. Went to a site in the UK and that was where I saw the prices. For a RTF 450S KDS ready to go it was about 350 pounds, which I figured was almost 2x $ ~$600-$700. They did offer the gyro for about 130 pounds (x2)= $260. I will check witha real currency converter and repost with accurate numbers. In reality for a 450 class RTF of that quality AND CAPABILITY, thats not unrealistic.

One of the other guys suggested a Futaba401. Do you know which is easier to set up and operates better.The KDS gyro, or the F401?? I suspect the latter.
Thanks again for your advice.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCT1 View Post
First ,, I didn't read all post,So,,, I have a friend with two 400 .. One to try and learn on and the other for parts!! LOL
The first thing if I had one... Get a Futaba 401 gyro... After a year of trying to hover my friend,,, finely took my advice ... And put a Futaba 401 on one of this birds....!!! Wow he is now flying!!!! And even thinking about up grading to a Align Trex 550 e FBL V2 with 3GX gyro...!
Next,, it comes with cheap servo .. Put Hitec 65 metal gear.... I have a Trex 450 V2 with over 2000 flight on it... Same Futaba 401 and same Hitec 65 in it....!
Next,,,,, STOP USING THERE BAD MAIN BLADES!!! Put spacers and run Trex 450 wood 325 main blades...
With good setup in your radio.. on setting this is all you should need.......!!!
Hi DCT1. Thanks for the words of wisdom. I have already changed over to ALign 325 wooden mains.Thats all thats available to me here in Thailand( wprking here for a while).
So going witha new gyro is one of the best paths to follow.
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Pete View Post
Hi GetterDragun.
I took your suggestion and googled the KDS. Went to a site in the UK and that was where I saw the prices. For a RTF 450S KDS ready to go it was about 350 pounds, which I figured was almost 2x $ ~$600-$700. They did offer the gyro for about 130 pounds (x2)= $260. I will check witha real currency converter and repost with accurate numbers. In reality for a 450 class RTF of that quality AND CAPABILITY, thats not unrealistic.

One of the other guys suggested a Futaba401. Do you know which is easier to set up and operates better.The KDS gyro, or the F401?? I suspect the latter.
Thanks again for your advice.
The 300pound KDS was a whole RTF Helicopter. The Futaba GY-401 is just a tail gyro, it will not help you make the helicopter more tame, it will just hold the tail better. You can use the 401 with the KDS, but what the KDS does is keep the swash level when you are not using the sticks. The KDS is a little more difficult to setup, but there is a lot of on-line support for it.

Here's one new for $70.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10092
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Old Aug 29, 2011, 02:52 AM
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United States, WA, Spokane
Joined Oct 2010
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I have flown and can endorse the KDS flymentor. The setup is tricky if you have the wrong computer since it only works with one version. Get the field programmer. Most the problems with the flymentor come from the fact that newbie pilots are trying to set it up and wrap their heads around all the issues of the flymentor and setting up a Cp heli properly for the first time. Not to mention a separate gyro quite often as well as a new programmable radio. Makes for a mental handfull to say the least. But when setup properly I have had mine self hover and hold one spot dead on in 15 to 20mph gusty winds with very little of my input. Had I not changed out my fleet to the new Skookum 720 I would still be using them.
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Old Aug 29, 2011, 04:27 AM
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Hi Ancient Pete, I have 50% expo set on the roll and pitch axis on my DX7. Plus make sure you no vibration in the airframe with the blades removed from the head. Balancing the blades is essential. All these things helped me a lot. I also replaced the gyro to a GY520 that I got from Hobbyking at a very reasonable price. This gyro made the heli rock solid.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 09:48 AM
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Hi Ancient Pete, I have 50% expo set on the roll and pitch axis on my DX7. Plus make sure you no vibration in the airframe with the blades removed from the head. Balancing the blades is essential. All these things helped me a lot. I also replaced the gyro to a GY520 that I got from Hobbyking at a very reasonable price. This gyro made the heli rock solid.
First thank you to all who have contributed to my Heli knowledge base . I have learned a great deal in the last few days.Thanks.
I do still need some clarification please.

Everyone agrees the EF110 gyros on the stock Blade 400 are of extream poor quality and should be changed out post haste.

Upgrade #1 comming. Suggestions run from Futaba 401 to GY520 to Quarks. I am looking for nice stable docile flying, no 3D. So looking at either the F401 or GY520.

Next the tail (gyro) servo.This must be digital. I am thinking of HS5065MG. Any comments on my choices so far?

I asked about very stable good trainers and the KDS was suggested. If all else fails with my B400(s),I might have to just bit the bullet and go this route. But I am not quite ready to give up on about $1000 dollars of helis and spares just yet.

I am understanding that the KDS flymentor is really a 3 axis stabization device ,rather then a tail hold gyro. That even with the flymentor,I will still need a gyro to keep the tail diciplined. So I can try for a good gyro.If that gets me up and flying OK. If not I expend the additional $70 ( plus whatever the prog board costs)and install a flymentor with my upgraded good gyro and then after much pain have high probability of having a stable tame heli.
There does that make sence to you rotary gurus???
Also I have just received a swash leveler for the B400 but sounds like I also need ablade ballancer.I have heard of tracking bladeds and made attempts here/But nto made any effort to ballanc.I now understand this is very important even for my modest planned style of flying.

OK so with all I have said above, any final words of wisdom before I open my check book and start the process???
Thanks again for sharing. I do appreciate it greatly. Not having an experienced heli [pilot to assist me personally, has made this far more challenging.However guys like you on the net have given me great help and hope for success. Thank you once again. I look forwards ot eharing form you all,more so doing what you have suggested and then actually flying( vs hovering and crashing) in a less petrified state.Kindest regards, Ancient Pete.
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