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Old Aug 25, 2014, 03:43 AM
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Strassenkater's Avatar
Deutschland, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Wuppertal
Joined Apr 2011
199 Posts
First i have to excuse me for my english.
I'm german so it's not my native language.
Therefore i must have been misunderstood.

I'll try to make it clear:

Plus 49g/1,72oz (slightly heavier servos, plastic battery holder, screws, thin cf tubes)

Minus 65g/2,29oz (Very lightweight ESC, lightweight cables, lightweight battery)

So i didn't add weight!

The plane is 16g/0,56oz lighter!


1332g/46,95oz - Plane without battery

1542g/54,39oz - Plane with ONE 4S2200 battery

1752g/61,80oz - Plane with adapter cable (13g) and TWO 4S2200 parallel, its like one 4S4400

At no point i added any dead weight.
I just moved the battery to the front.
Moving something doesn't add weight.

But of course if i had chosen typical 11g or12g servos and spared the battery holder the weight including battery would have been about 1493g/52,66oz



Regarding Servos TGY306G HV:

Even before i ordered the slick i made my choice.
In this size i also own Hitec HS65HB, HS85, Futaba S3156, Graupner DES 488 BB MG and even MKS DS95i.

The MKS DS95i is the best over all but not the strongest.
It's directly followed by the TGY306G HV, which is almost the same speed, but significantly stronger.
Gear play is about the same, with little advantage for the DS95i.

All other servos don't even come close.
Slower, less powerful, much more gear play in different combinations.
Some are unreliable like the DES488.

Even before i ordered the slick i was aware that i'll have to move the battery forward.
And i was concerned that moving the battery won't be enough and i had to add lead/plump in the nose.
If that had been the case i would have switched to other lighter servos.
But as i said, moving the battery was enough, i didn't add any dead weight.

The first time i flew the TGY306HV was in 450 helicopter.
It was amazing.
Especially tictocs and wall stops were extremly crisp.
Then i tried them in a nitro 1,40m Cap323 replacing hitec hs85 , snap figures were much better, everything felt more connected.

If you had this experience, the 21g instead 12g per servo really won't bother you or the plane.
You definitely won't feel the difference if a plane weighs for example 1410g or 1450g.
And if someone feels a difference it' just the placebo effect.
But you will definitely feel the difference of the servos in torque, speed and accuracy while flying.
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Last edited by Strassenkater; Aug 25, 2014 at 03:54 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 07:30 AM
Get ya Alpha up
Hoverin's Avatar
Australia, WA, Mandurah
Joined Mar 2012
378 Posts
Edited last post, apologies (damn foggy brain from nightshift). I was more leaning toward the work you've done to counteract and keep the weight down after choosing heavy servos, than the added weight I eluded to.
On the servos you mention neither of the Hitecs take much beating. Not familiar with the others.
There are good servos around in the micro range. Not many in the speed you require (would like to see a video of your flying the .06 speed servos).
A couple of us are running the Savox 0255's, @ .13 speed is plenty quick enough, faster than this would require skills like Andrew Jesky etc to notice.
Are you running your HV's at 7V?
I tend to steer away from servos that have "play" from new.
P.S. Your English is good and completely understandable.
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Last edited by Hoverin; Aug 27, 2014 at 02:29 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 08:14 AM
Registered User
Finland
Joined Aug 2013
103 Posts
Hoverin: are you running your Savox 255's on ESC BEC or additional BEC? On what voltage?

About my planned batteries, I've got plenty of 4S 2200mAh batteries available and also one 3000mAh battery. So probably I will be able to test myself the difference between light setup on 2200mAh and then the heavier with larger battery. And yeah, using the same NTM motor as you guys.

At least my Eratix likes light setup. It's currently setup for 3S and I've got somewhat limited power on it (around 630 Watts) so with heavy batteries it's beginning to be on limit for hovering . Of course the flight time is reduced with smaller batteries...

About CG, is 99-100mm neutral for Slick? I'm able to fly Eratix tail heavy, the landings are of course then little bit hair raising as the elevator is so sensitive, but otherwise I've found that you're able normally to move CG quite much. Of course neutral point is where it is... And for example knife edge on Eratix is screwed as soon as you deviate from it (plane turns either to belly or canopy, which you could "fix" by mixing). Does Slick require elevator mixing for doing knife edge or does it fly straight in knife edge when CG is correct?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:28 AM
Now, what does this button do?
Nukiwi's Avatar
Christchurch. NZ
Joined Dec 2009
534 Posts
Quote:
First I have to excuse me for my English
Not at all, your English is far, far better than my German.

Anyway, I always thought the idea of these forums was to swop ideas & experiences. I have learned a lot from looking at other peoples ways of doing things!

The difference in total weight we are talking about here is of no consequence to the a/c' s performance.
Empty: You= 1332g. Me=1346g.
RTF: You=1542g. Me=1575g. (No spats)

As you have shown, (very eloquently) Where your components go will make the battery placement more or less of a problem.

As Hoverin mentioned, you may now find it a bit harder to fine tune your C of G due to the battery box position.

Lastly, if you compare any of a group a Slicks. They will all be slightly different, simply down to the way it was made in the factory (+ the grade of balsa for that batch, etc, etc.) Plus how we, the builder, put it together.

Mine goes well & is very neutral at about 100mm. Hoverin's may be 5 or 10 mm different. That will just be down to differences in the individual plane.

Quote:
Hoverin: are you running your Savox 255's on ESC BEC or additional BEC? On what voltage?
External BEC & 6V.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:37 PM
Get ya Alpha up
Hoverin's Avatar
Australia, WA, Mandurah
Joined Mar 2012
378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Late99 View Post
Hoverin: are you running your Savox 255's on ESC BEC or additional BEC? On what voltage?

About my planned batteries, I've got plenty of 4S 2200mAh batteries available and also one 3000mAh battery. So probably I will be able to test myself the difference between light setup on 2200mAh and then the heavier with larger battery. And yeah, using the same NTM motor as you guys.

At least my Eratix likes light setup. It's currently setup for 3S and I've got somewhat limited power on it (around 630 Watts) so with heavy batteries it's beginning to be on limit for hovering . Of course the flight time is reduced with smaller batteries...

About CG, is 99-100mm neutral for Slick? I'm able to fly Eratix tail heavy, the landings are of course then little bit hair raising as the elevator is so sensitive, but otherwise I've found that you're able normally to move CG quite much. Of course neutral point is where it is... And for example knife edge on Eratix is screwed as soon as you deviate from it (plane turns either to belly or canopy, which you could "fix" by mixing). Does Slick require elevator mixing for doing knife edge or does it fly straight in knife edge when CG is correct?
Hi, always run external BEC for this size airframe and up at (6V).
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Reduction.html
A number of years ago I had a couple experiences where the ESC decided to stop doing one of it's 2 jobs (RX power), so now I just let them concentrate on powering the motor, run a separate BEC and have had no issues since.
On the CG I don't really know where mine is exactly.
Lose the "rearward CG for 3D" thing, this is a myth. A forward of neutral CG is advised by most of the "3D" guys, the one's I follow anyway.

Take off and get some height, flip inverted and fly a 45 degree upline at 75% throttle. If your model pulls to the canopy after a couple seconds your CG is right. Of coarse it's a matter of taste but this is how I set mine up.
This setting also allows better straight line flying and reduces coupling in KE, a rearward CG adds to the coupling in KE, or needs more mixing to get it out.

Michael Wargo's 123D thread is a must visit...

Mine weighs in at 1438g dry, with one wing, cowl and motor box repairs accounting for the extra weight.
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Last edited by Hoverin; Aug 26, 2014 at 04:57 AM.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 06:25 AM
Registered User
Finland
Joined Aug 2013
103 Posts
Yeah, neutral CG of course is suggested & best way. To find it properly I always end up flying with rearward CG at some phase (move battery, test fly, move battery, test fly...). But yeah, non neutral CG makes knife edge much harder & requiring elevator mix...
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Old Aug 28, 2014, 12:36 AM
Get ya Alpha up
Hoverin's Avatar
Australia, WA, Mandurah
Joined Mar 2012
378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukiwi View Post
Anyway, I always thought the idea of these forums was to swap ideas & experiences. I have learned a lot from looking at other peoples ways of doing things!
Me too and yeah, that's right. Strass wanted the lightest setup he could get (like most of us) but had a certain servo in mind that just happens to be heavier than a lot of us are using. Hence all the work to get the CG right. Apologies (Strass) if I came across judgmental, that wasn't the intention, I just thought it was a lot of work to keep heavy servos in the tail, then to put a light battery and ESC in was asking for CG trouble/extra work. Anywho each to their own, and you have a lighter plane now than most of us anyway, hopefully the motor box will handle the extra 210g weight and stresses of blenders, KE spins, snaps etc. Still like to see a video when she's going
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Old Sep 03, 2014, 02:51 AM
how'd I do that....oh
chop stiX's Avatar
South Africa, GP, Pretoria
Joined May 2011
2,260 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukiwi View Post
Ooops, That will teach me, too much Pino & no proof reading......

Measured it with a gauge today & I get just over 60 degrees. on the elevator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoverin View Post
I'll have to get myself one of those degree guage thingies.
Budging in here but I have about 72* on m elevator.Somewhere in the far down history of this thread there's a pic of it
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Old Sep 03, 2014, 04:04 AM
Get ya Alpha up
Hoverin's Avatar
Australia, WA, Mandurah
Joined Mar 2012
378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chop stiX View Post
Budging in here but I have about 72* on m elevator.Somewhere in the far down history of this thread there's a pic of it
Show off....
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Old Sep 03, 2014, 10:05 AM
Now, what does this button do?
Nukiwi's Avatar
Christchurch. NZ
Joined Dec 2009
534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chop stiX View Post
Budging in here but I have about 72* on m elevator.Somewhere in the far down history of this thread there's a pic of it
That's not an elevator, that's an air brake.......
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