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Old Jul 21, 2012, 04:09 AM
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DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
2,614 Posts
Question
Is the DLG community ready for a short composite kit?

The title says it all.
The kit would consist of the following:

kevlar pod with carbon boom tenon and carbon reinforcements

matching boom rolled from HM 100 gram carbon with two layers light glass [15 gram/31 inches

wing cores cut from dow highload 60 [2 panel perside Zone V2 ]


tail cores [EDGE also highload 60

.067 HM carbon wing spars

uni-carbon tailspars

ALSO,What would you expect to pay? [usd funds]

I have a number in my head but to be honest when I see topsky 1 going for 200 usd Im not sure a short kit can compete however the potential from a short kit could very well build a much better glider .

Please give me your thoughts. Its time to put the build back into this forum.


[disclaimer : theses kits would be offered as a first come first serve basis and I will NOT make a list or advertise any kits prior to completion. If I advertise the kit can be in the mail within 24 hrs]


thanks in advance
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 04:10 AM
Now fortified with carbon
DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
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Nov 1st 2012 released
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Last edited by DLGjunkyard; Nov 01, 2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:59 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,571 Posts
I had given a lot of thought to a short kit, but in reality when doing molded stuff the short kit is almost as much work as a full kit. Mine is a "semi" in that there is still a bit of epoxy involved unlike a few of the more fully finished euro-moldies, but generally assembly takes a couple of evenings.

What you're talking about will sell very well. Most people who want to build but don't have the equipment to cut foam or hollow mold will jump onboard quickly. In a short kit you can probably provide some wing choices (lower AR higher lift foil etc) that would bring some sport type fliers in at a lower cost point. Your cost in doing so is limited to a couple of sets of templates, nothing more.

DLG is poaching a lot of thumbs from other more expensive disciplines of the sport. Your proposal will certainly not slow that movement. Keep in mind that the TS is $200 but your airplane has a better airfoil, and possibly a better planform. If you keep the design ahead of the low priced asian imports, you'll do all right.

There are four ways to compete in a mass market.

1. Quality - Make a better product
2. Price - Sell it for less
3. Availability - Make it more available than the competition
4. Pride of Ownership - People still like to build their own and / or fly something that everyone else isn't flying
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 11:04 AM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Nov 2003
3,374 Posts
I think it would sell well. The DL-50 is pretty popular and this would be a much better ship but can be built with the same construction methods. I would suggest an AG series wing or similar (HM51 etc) to start though, Zone v2 is thin and requires good fabric and technique to build correctly. Might suggest including all necessary fabric and the mylar.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 12:24 PM
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DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
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You both make good points. I have wondered as well as Sam if the skins could still be done like the DL50 with the much thinner foils of the zone and edge foils
My pod/booms are fairly light but still built strong enough for new DLG pilots [which is the target customer]

With my pods/booms in the 45 gram range it seems as though if the panels could stay within 150 grams before servo`s 10 OZ could be quite possible.


As you guys already know shipping in parts from various suppliers can add up fast whereas most of the materials to finish a short kit could be found locally. Glass,resin,kevlar etc.

Im a little reluctant to jump in mostly because if it did take off I might have my hands full but Im sitting on 40 core sets [zone2p] and 20 pod/booms. Its a 8 hr day but I can pull off a kit within a day and Im retired so my time is my own. Its looking like fun.
Do you guys thing if 1.6 oz glass was used with perhaps a few extra doublers the zone foils could be used/ keep in mind the spars [.067] are not the cheapo rods bought out of China [aircraft spruce rods are my intent]
thanks for the replies guys.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:14 PM
Registered User
Congress, AZ
Joined Sep 2001
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I don't think the 1.6 fg holds up any better than the 1.2 and the wings will turn out lighter. Of course, it would depend on the cores.

I really like the AG45/46/Zone 25 as Oleg had on some of the Taboos. Launches better than the straight AG series and shouldn't need facing, etc. So it would be an easier build. There are a couple flying in our club and they do fine. But if you have the cores.... IMHO, of course.

Sounds like it would work. Pre-orders would be useful, of course.

Gary
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:59 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
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Everything Gary said +1

1.2 is every bit as good as 1.6 and sheds a few grams. Both cloths are "new bagger" friendly unlike .75 or .5oz.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 02:15 PM
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DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
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Sorry guys, I guess my question is more about layups rather than 1.6 clothe. What I meant to ask was will heavier clothe make up for the thinner cores? So rather than a stardard layup ,what about adding a few more grams perhaps with doublers and the like so ZOne cores would be suitable. SAM`s comment got me thinking about what could be done if guys wanted to use the minwax dl50 methods.Im thinking to make the kit more versatile. aka noobe friendly

I kind of wish I had cut some thicker cores than the zone.Thats a easy fix though. I might cut cores for another few months.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:13 PM
It's a mere flesh wound!
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Woodstock,Ga.
Joined Jun 2004
1,076 Posts
I wouldn't start selling the short kits without testing them. Build a couple of DLGs with the parts you are going to include in your kits using the the DL-50 methods, take them out and fly them to see if they will stand up to hard flying.

If you start selling them and guys have problems with them, you'll get a reputation that will be carried over to any future projects you might come up with. I've seen that happen to a couple of guys that started selling their models without testing them.

Make a lot of pictures when you are building the test models and you can use them in a building guide.

My Humble Opinion...Buddy
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:53 PM
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DLGjunkyard's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Roos View Post
I wouldn't start selling the short kits without testing them. Build a couple of DLGs with the parts you are going to include in your kits using the the DL-50 methods, take them out and fly them to see if they will stand up to hard flying.

If you start selling them and guys have problems with them, you'll get a reputation that will be carried over to any future projects you might come up with. I've seen that happen to a couple of guys that started selling their models without testing them.

Make a lot of pictures when you are building the test models and you can use them in a building guide.

My Humble Opinion...Buddy
point taken. thanks

I have sold about 3 dozen of the pods and booms and 5 for myself. they are holding up well.

To clarify. I would be selling cores, skinning would be up to the builder. Im taking into consideration at this point which foils would be best suited for a wide range of options. I dont think Zone cores would do well with minwax [dl50method]
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:56 PM
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Having given this more thought I think I would be best to include bias kevlar on transfer tape for hinges/LE rather than glass for the wing skins. Good idea? [ Sam suggested wing skins in previous post]
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 10:59 PM
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here are the pod/booms http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1594029
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 02:23 PM
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I finally got around to pulling all this together. This is by no means much of a money maker for me but it keeps some cash flowing and hopefully the building of DLG`s alive

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1759758
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 03:50 PM
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined May 2011
402 Posts
I think this is a fantastic idea and applaud you for pulling it together. It'll be really interesting to see how many people take you up on it. This is a great way to get into a competitive DLG for a great price if you're comfortable bagging wings. Very cool.

-John
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 04:47 PM
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DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
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Ideally I would like to see a thread started followed by contributions from others and try to put the build back into building.

The basic idea is for me to put most of the parts together in one box to save multiple shipments from various places so the builder can focus on the art of bagging.

I sold two kits so far


Thanks for the applaud
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