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Old Oct 16, 2014, 08:30 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Yesterday's maiden....I was fully expecting climb on throttle input... it did not....I also expected some degree of nose drop when cutting the throttle....it did not....so my rig appears to be neutral. The fitment of my airframe while not perfect...mated very well to all of its receiver surfaces.

Sctholson.....originally....did your rig float during flat level flight with the tail dragging?

TwistedGrin
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Old Oct 16, 2014, 02:07 PM
Lou
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United States, VA, Waynesboro
Joined Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Hard to tell what 'pricy' means. No price shown on the page so clicked every link on the page to 'Purchase' the unit, & all give same error message: "Error: There is no such store "51Turbulence".
Please check the store name following "store=" for the correct store name and try again. We do not have a store by that name on our system.
Date and time: Thursday, October 16, 2014 at 05:46:44
"
Yep, saw that late, late last night. Sent an email to them and the owner replied back today that he is not selling any product at present. Darn shame. Anyway, I did respond back asking if they will be selling again in the future.

It really is a nice product and makes very simple setting up the decalage on a plane.

Found my original invoice ...

Quantity: 1
Product: MU-9000X Universal Serial Bus Angle Measuring System | $219.00 (each)
Option
s:

Probably more than what most modelers are willing to pay. I like gadgets and gadgets that help me get a plane to perfection so I took
the dive and paid the money. )
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Last edited by Lou; Oct 16, 2014 at 02:20 PM.
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Old Oct 16, 2014, 02:18 PM
Lou
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United States, VA, Waynesboro
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Originally Posted by Sctholson View Post
The tail is screwed down in that image. I did need to use a longer and larger diameter screw. I utilized two incident bars and I aligned them to be as parallel to the body of the plane as possible. (I used a string pulled taught under the plane to get a reference) ......
.
Scott ... try this way and see what you come up with.

Remove the canopy from the fuse, place the plane in a V cradle or something similar. Take a small level and place it aross the rails the canopy sits on. The level should run left to right on the rail. Now adjust the plane to get the level bubble in the center of the glass. Do the same with a level along the rail, from front to back. You want to level the plane on both axis. Place a support under the boom at the middle at least and if possibe at the end of the boom.

We are using the rails for the canopy because in almost all cases, that surface will also relect a imaginary line along the center of the plane. In theory the wing will ride 0 degree to that line. Usually.

I have not used the gear you are using to measure with so not sure what to tell you about that. I use Robard incidence bars and the AeroPerfect at this point. Regardless, now take your measurements and see what the degrees are.

Remember on the V-tail you are measuring that you can measure from the mount if the v-tail fins are properly aligned to the mount. If not, then you shoot a front to back line along the surface of the fin and get that line to parallel to the wing or mid-line of the fuselage.
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Last edited by Lou; Oct 16, 2014 at 02:36 PM.
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Old Oct 16, 2014, 04:28 PM
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Woodstock, VT
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Let me just ask - and I hope I make sense out of this.....
How did you know what relevance the tail vs wings should be, given it's a V-tail, and considering the somewhat odd configuration of gliders overall (ie the long tail boom), and how it all applies on this particular plane?
I'm asking this as most if not all ARF gliders I've owned thus far seem to be set for a climbing attitude. I was asking about the decalage from my very first one, a P2K. Turned out a 1/8" thick shim (washers on the front screw) set it perfectly. And the 8 or so gliders I've set up since then - every one, set on their natural mounting lines, wants to go almost straight up when you're climbing with no input. You've gotta hold the nose down to keep from looping. Had even asked the question - if this was something common to all; ie they're supposed to be that way? Never got an applicable answer - I made things "too complicated" over there.
Okay so let me start with this:
1. I am not a self proclaimed anything, so I sought resources to give me insight. What I found was RadioCarbonArt videos with Paul Naton. I listened to Paul's thoughts and then applied them to the V-Tail.

2. Out of the box I ran a 2200 battery and on power climb out the plane wanted to do an inside loop if I didn't hold down elevator.

3. Out of the box I found that there was no way I could get the CG at 75 mm. But all planes fly nose heavy, so I wasn't deterred especially since within this thread people were flying with 2200 batteries.

4. Out of the box a few of you here suggested I start with just the simplest of programming. I listened and only programmed crow. I really needed to keep it slow as my landing area is limited and I just don't have the flexibility to glide forever.

5. What I found fairly rapidly is that with the 2200 battery and the CG so far forward the nose wanted to dive on a stall and when I wasn't stalling the plane was pitching up and then stalling. I constantly had to push down elevator anytime there was some speed involved. So knowing something was off I added weight to the tail until I could get a reasonable good balance. To me this was a flat and slow flight that didn't dive immediately when I was inverted and did a dive test that held it's dive. During this part of the testing, I also realized the decalage was off. And this is where I bought Paul's video.

6. I cradled the plane, and did the various decalage checks. Previously mentioned so I won't repeat. I was unable to check the incidence as I have no idea what the plane designer intended it to be. I only used the wing as a zero point and set the stabilizer to match.

7. Only after I did the decalage adjustments was I able to realize a CG of further back of 75mm. The plane floated nicely, reacted to the air, etc. The plane was still heavy though as I had extra battery and tail weight.

8. Knowing the CG that I wanted, I removed both the battery and the tail weight and I figured out what battery weight I would need in order to balance at the CG I wanted. I don't remember specifically now but it was something like 68 grams. I checked and fat chance of getting a 1300mah battery that light. So I bought a 113g battery and new I needed some tail weight.

9. Flying with the 113 battery and figuring out the CG now that the plane is lighter. Still working on this, but as I reported yesterday those pictures showed the 8g weight in front of the fin by a few inches and the CG was 76mm.

10. Going back a few steps. When I zeroed out the decalage, another thing I checked was the motor pitch. Was it pointed down, up, left or right. The good news is that the motor was not left or right, but it was a full six degrees off from the wing decalage. Can't be you are saying... maybe so, but it was. I zeroed the motor to the wing and to the stabilizer. When I power up now, the plane only goes forward.

Paul articulates pretty well I thought how to set up a sailplane and he was pretty thorough on V-Tails too. I only followed his suggestions and got to where I am now.

Hope that answers some of the questions.
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Old Oct 17, 2014, 03:27 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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SCTholson,

Thanks for this write up.....sounds like the manufacturing process had a little design creep at the mold. Otherwise.....I too am puzzled how anyone can get a 75mm COG with a 3s Battery in the battery straps. I am sure I can get to a 75mm COG but the battery will be as far back as the cavity will allow....and most likely still need some tail weight...even with my lightest 3s 1800mAh LiPo.

I will have to keep experimenting with COG and take notes for performance based on the wind velocities.....very few of my fomies performed well at the suggested COG or required ancillary weights after exhausting battery weight and size placement. However - I realize the world of Sailplanes is vastly different from the Warbird airframes - so the benefit of being light is well stated with greater possibility of penalty exist if too nose heavy.

Thanks again - and by your photos - amazing how far off the tail is....and equally amazing it still flies (OK with other modifications) with out correction on the tail!!!

TwistedGrin
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Old Oct 17, 2014, 07:12 PM
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Hi all ,Twisted I use 1300 nano tech 45-90 c Battery's.They fit with a little wiggle room behind the gear hump.I did not do much to this plane. I #1 added two 1/32" ply wood for a floor in front of and behind the hump.#2 I did not like the stock batt. strap so I put two slots in the floor piece, and used a Velcro brand Tye loop strap.I mounted this strap further back than the original so it tightened near the center of the battery. The stock strap only held down the front of the batt. Then I used ultra coat trim, to make strips for the under side of the fuse. ,and the under side of the wings and tail.finally I used thin very sticky packing tape on the bottom and sides of the fuse and the leading edges of the wings.This really helps toughen the foam. One must work with a good spreader, and take your time applying the tape.Then on to the balance stand.
I found it a little nose heavy. so I neatly glued some small sinkers to the servo cover.On the stand I played around a little pushing it up then down. I found a weight combination that caused it to always return to a level flight attitude.
It flew very well from the first flight on. Now with duel ailerons, crow, and or flaps it just gets better.
I plan on using this plane in local Ales contests.
In the last few weeks I repaired a friends Radian Pro. I'm Glad I bought the V ROC. Not so much a criticism , the plane was pile driven. The repairs came out great. The radian pro is very power full for its weight. the VROC climes out perfectly at full throttle.It is not as power full.It's just right.As soon as the battery's charge I'll post some pictures.
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Old Oct 18, 2014, 11:57 AM
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Joined Dec 2009
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As promised, Also I re checked my c/g and it is set at 73 mm.73 to 75mm should be fine. Just make sure it is stable on the stand. When I set the C/G I marked it on the wing and put a small indent on the mark ,It makes checking at the field much easier.
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Old Oct 18, 2014, 01:01 PM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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I use a matchstick half affixed underneath* on the CG point. Reduces the 10-15mm fingertip width contact point down to ~1mm.
*(or atop, for low wings as prescribed)
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Old Oct 19, 2014, 07:07 PM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Caught a very nice thermal yesterday man she didn't want to come down at all very fun.

CG I use a small squeeze of hot glue in the recommended measurement on both wings to check CG when needed, just feel for the glue points with your finger tip, easy to do and fast.

Jeff……….
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Old Oct 19, 2014, 07:21 PM
Paradise R/C Flyers in NY
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United States, NY, Utica
Joined May 2010
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flying the v-tail in heavy wind 15-25 mph
using the Guardian 2D/3D Stabilizer

Roc hobbys v-tail (6 min 18 sec)
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Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Outstanding Bhcnomo - I can see where the black decal tape on top of the wing can help with reverse flex.....so do you have packing/strapping tape or something on the underside of the wings? Thanks for the video and taking shots of your forward position 2200mAh LiPo....nose heavy for the high winds.

Additionally, you were motoring the entire time.....is our motor and electrics OK for constant throttle (even maintenance throttle) for an entire flight without heat issues?

I was doing runway strafes yesterday just to invoke and experience the V-ROC sound waves....ubra cool.....and fly big huge hammerheads back to back end to end with low runway passes. Not exactly flying glider style.....these gliders are deceptively fast as you know. In dead airs you can nearly use kinetic energy to dive-loop-bank and coast with minimal effort.

So my motor was cool...but I only used it in repeated short burst

TwistedGrin
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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If you don't think she's movin' fast, just wait'll the first time you decide to hand catch it for a landing.
*Big Evil Grin*
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM
Paradise R/C Flyers in NY
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United States, NY, Utica
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedGrin View Post
Outstanding Bhcnomo - I can see where the black decal tape on top of the wing can help with reverse flex.....so do you have packing/strapping tape or something on the underside of the wings? Thanks for the video and taking shots of your forward position 2200mAh LiPo....nose heavy for the high winds.

Additionally, you were motoring the entire time.....is our motor and electrics OK for constant throttle (even maintenance throttle) for an entire flight without heat issues?

I was doing runway strafes yesterday just to invoke and experience the V-ROC sound waves....ubra cool.....and fly big huge hammerheads back to back end to end with low runway passes. Not exactly flying glider style.....these gliders are deceptively fast as you know. In dead airs you can nearly use kinetic energy to dive-loop-bank and coast with minimal effort.

So my motor was cool...but I only used it in repeated short burst

TwistedGrin
just the black packing tape top and bottom of the wing
and tail
another thing i did was to put hinge tape on both sides of all the control services

no problem with the motor or the esc so far
but not running the motor all the time

here is a link for the colored packing tape
http://www.tapebrothers.com/2-0-mil-.../opp20cbk2.htm
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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
2,004 Posts
Here is my video....third flight...just late twilight evening runway passes...... The beeps you here are when I am toggling throttle on and off...

http://youtu.be/JR04tex5960?list=UUG...K2zmXg3FrX8ueA

TwistedGrin
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