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Old Feb 20, 2012, 07:59 PM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
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Hi all,

Weird problem with my SB 80a. (for a heli) here's my start up / problem.

a) turn on the dx6i, throttle stick at 0, throttle hold is off
b) plug in the esc, get lights, gyro etc.
c) spool up, no problem
d) flip throttle hold to ON. fine, motor shuts down
e) put stick at 0, turn throttle hold OFF and she starts going like mad, even through stick is at 0.

My governer setting is at AUTO. Am I missing something? There seems to be no OFF in governer mode.
I have set the throttle range, checked that I have not trim or sub trim...

by the way, does any one have a link to the orginal firmware? I tried updating the firmware to the one on the HK files tab, but it didn't change anything and now I can't use the newer software from HiFei. It just tells me invalid firmware number

I was so looking forward to getting my 500 flying.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 07:55 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,652 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
Hi all,

Weird problem with my SB 80a. (for a heli) here's my start up / problem.

a) turn on the dx6i, throttle stick at 0, throttle hold is off
b) plug in the esc, get lights, gyro etc.
c) spool up, no problem
d) flip throttle hold to ON. fine, motor shuts down
e) put stick at 0, turn throttle hold OFF and she starts going like mad, even through stick is at 0.
In throttle hold, is the throttle set to zero? If not, it's possible the SB is re-calibrating zero, and then will run the motor, seeing low stick throttle in normal mode as non-zero.

You might be able to confirm what's going on by re-calibrating your throttle, and then looking at what value has been set, shown in us, in the software.

Then, if you can replicate the throttle hold incident, check again in the software to see if the calibrated value has changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
My governer setting is at AUTO. Am I missing something? There seems to be no OFF in governer mode.
I have set the throttle range, checked that I have not trim or sub trim...
Just Chinglish, I think - "Auto" effectively means "off"! I use governor high mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
by the way, does any one have a link to the orginal firmware? I tried updating the firmware to the one on the HK files tab, but it didn't change anything and now I can't use the newer software from HiFei. It just tells me invalid firmware number
I might have it on an old pc that i'll try to boot up. you didn't load the latest Hifei firmware, did you? The latest version is for SB's manufactured after March, 2011, if memory serves. They do also have an earlier version on the site, which may work.

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Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
I was so looking forward to getting my 500 flying.
Bummer! I feel your pain! But hope you can sort this out and get some good air time!

Have you tried this firmware? (under the "files" tab)
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Last edited by 2Doggs; Feb 21, 2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Firmware link
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 11:31 AM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
1,093 Posts
Thanks 2Doggs!

My throttle hold is set to 0, but I noticed something. When I go to the monitor on the Dx6i and put my stick to 0, it goes to the second "notch". When I flip the throttle hold on, it does show that the throttle has gone "lower". So I beleive you are correct in that it's auto calibrating and causing my issue. I have no trim on my throttle, which in a way is actully a little "up" trim. Meaning with the trim in the center, zero is not true zero.

So I guess that I can fix this in one of two ways, 1) trim my throttle stick down to match the throttle hold, or set my throttle hold to 1 or 2 percent to match the stick.

(Yep the calibartion does show that it changed in the software, thanks for that)

Regarding firmware;
The orginal version of the firmware on the ESC worked with the newest version of the Hefei software (4.01) which is nice because of the win7 drivers and it looks better too.
When I upgraded to the version on the HK site (the one you linked to) I was no longer able to load the Hefei software. (it tells me that the HK version of the firmware is not valid).

Quote:
They do also have an earlier version on the site, which may work.
So yeah, if you have a link to the older/orginal firmware that comes with the SB, that would be great. Thanks and Cheers!
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 12:03 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,652 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
Thanks 2Doggs!

My throttle hold is set to 0, but I noticed something. When I go to the monitor on the Dx6i and put my stick to 0, it goes to the second "notch". When I flip the throttle hold on, it does show that the throttle has gone "lower". So I beleive you are correct in that it's auto calibrating and causing my issue. I have no trim on my throttle, which in a way is actully a little "up" trim. Meaning with the trim in the center, zero is not true zero.

So I guess that I can fix this in one of two ways, 1) trim my throttle stick down to match the throttle hold, or set my throttle hold to 1 or 2 percent to match the stick.

(Yep the calibartion does show that it changed in the software, thanks for that)
Glad that worked, or probably will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
Regarding firmware;
The orginal version of the firmware on the ESC worked with the newest version of the Hefei software (4.01) which is nice because of the win7 drivers and it looks better too.
Hmm, I haven't tried installing the latest software, since my 40A SB is pre-March 2011. When did you buy yours?

I found that the Hifei 3.03 software loads more easily than the Turnigy version, and that the installer is also a smaller file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
When I upgraded to the version on the HK site (the one you linked to) I was no longer able to load the Hefei software. (it tells me that the HK version of the firmware is not valid).
But were you able to run the old 3.03 software with that firmware?

There are two firmware files in the link - did you try both of them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
So yeah, if you have a link to the older/orginal firmware that comes with the SB, that would be great. Thanks and Cheers!
If you're feeling adventurous, you could try the firmware on the files tab of the 100A SB page - it's described as the "original firmware for unblocking".

Update: just tried the 4.01 software - and besides it not working with my older SB, I actually prefer the V3.03 software, which opens instantaneously, and defaults to a full screen view of the data log.

Incidentally, do you know that you can edit the config.ini file that you'll find in the program folder to set the default number of motor poles to match your own motor. The relevant line is "polnumber=p" where p = the number of poles, and it's set to 2 by default in the software.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 01:19 PM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
1,093 Posts
- I just got in the last couple of weeks.
- 3.03 does load with the "HK" firmware.
- Both of those firmware files on HK are the same version.
- I don't have a spare esc, so I'm not going to try the 100amp firmware... yet
- 4.01 doesn't work with the "HK updated firmware". What does 4.01 say when you try to start it? Mine says something along the lines of "unsupported firmware". However, 4.01 did load when I had the orginal firmware.
-Excellent tip for the config... thanks.

By the way, I'm wondering about the Amp logging. Do you find yours accurate? I have my 80a SB in a 500 heli and it tells me I only used 8 amps. I was only hovering and I am running 6S, but thought it would have been more.

As long as I get that throttle hold worked out, I think I'll enjoy this esc. I was worried...
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 08:03 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
- I just got in the last couple of weeks.
- 3.03 does load with the "HK" firmware.
- Both of those firmware files on HK are the same version.
- I don't have a spare esc, so I'm not going to try the 100amp firmware... yet
- 4.01 doesn't work with the "HK updated firmware". What does 4.01 say when you try to start it? Mine says something along the lines of "unsupported firmware". However, 4.01 did load when I had the orginal firmware.
-Excellent tip for the config... thanks.
4.01 wouldn't recognise my SB, I got the "time out, device open failure" message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
By the way, I'm wondering about the Amp logging. Do you find yours accurate? I have my 80a SB in a 500 heli and it tells me I only used 8 amps. I was only hovering and I am running 6S, but thought it would have been more.
It does sound a bit low, even on 6s. On my 450, I was able to hover at just over 8A when I set the HS to 2200. I'd expect a 500 to use about twice the power, so it might be feasible with a low enough HS. With my 40A SB, I seem to get decent correlation between the area under the current line in the log and the charge I put back into the battery pack. It's easier to integrate the area under the current line if you just do a steady hover, and keep the current almost constant. Right now with my 450, with the HS set to 2600, I'm drawing an average of 14.5A doing light aerobatics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
As long as I get that throttle hold worked out, I think I'll enjoy this esc. I was worried...
I know I'm a gadget freak, but I really love my SB! Until I bought the CX 3x1000 FBL controller, it was definitely the best bang-for-the-buck gadget I'd ever bought. (and now I have both on one heli!)
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 04:12 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2004
216 Posts
Super Brain 40 not working

I purchased this ESC a couple of months ago. I just got around to trying it today.
When I connect a known good motor, plug in a low-set throttle, then plug in a battery, there are no beeps. The motor does not move with advancing throttle.
My CC controllers all work with the same setup

I have the linker. The device and firmware are read as DTKA081LA4000. The throttle range is listed as 704 usec.

Is the SB no good?
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 04:30 PM
Prefectionist
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Mar 2007
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JR or futaba/Hitech radio? reverse the throttle if Futaba. also try lowering the throttle trim.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 05:34 PM
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Joined Dec 2004
216 Posts
SB 40 Not working

Thx, It's not a Futaba radio. I think the throttle is low enough. Tried running from a servo tester with the same result. No response.

I just now requested support from HK. Is there any hope of getting a timely reply from them?
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Last edited by rivers; Feb 22, 2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 07:46 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivers View Post
I purchased this ESC a couple of months ago. I just got around to trying it today.
When I connect a known good motor, plug in a low-set throttle, then plug in a battery, there are no beeps. The motor does not move with advancing throttle.
My CC controllers all work with the same setup

I have the linker. The device and firmware are read as DTKA081LA4000. The throttle range is listed as 704 usec.

Is the SB no good?
Sorry to hear it's not working.

If your throttle wasn't set to zero, you'd expect the SB to go into programming mode. It sounds more like there's no power from the ESC BEC. Do you have a multi-meter to cheack for output in the ESC RX lead?

When you power up, can you move your servos? That would indicate power is getting thru from the BEC, but there is no motor control signal.

You could try using a servo Y lead, with the red wire disconnected from the socket you connect to the SB RX lead, and use either an RX pack or a UBEC plugged in to the other side of the Y lead if you are getting no voltage in the SB ESC lead. The BEC in the 40A SB is pretty weak, and renowned for heating up, and it's better to use a Ubec if you have any digital servos.

If you can connect to your pc using the linker and run the software, you might try re-loading the original firmware. There may be a copy under the "files" tab of the product page on the HK site. My older 40A SB shows as DTuAA10811LA400, and the throttle range with my JR radio is 824us.

Good luck!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:45 AM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
1,093 Posts
Regarding firmware the firmware that came with my 80a SB started with DTKA, the ones on the HK files tab (for the 80a) are both DTuA...

DTuA doesn't work with the newer Hefei software.

I wish there was some place they list the firmware revision and what the changes were. Hefei hasn't release an update that I can see on thier site, yet Turnigy has released an update... weird.

By the way, setting my throttle trim down a few clicks so that it matched the position of throttle hold fixed my issue....
Cheers!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:54 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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OS compatibility but little else?

Glad to hear you sorted out the throttle calibration issue.

As far as I can tell, the recent firmware changes haven't improved functionality, they just apply to the recent versions with the 4.01 software, which works with Win7.

It would be great to have access to more parameters - such as the rate of change from one governed throttle setting to another. (you can alter that with CC controllers)

If you have, say, 75% throttle in normal mode, and 80% and 85% in stunt 1 and stunt 2 respectively, flipping the mode switch results in a giant current spike in the data log, and is my prime suspect for wearing out the OWB super quickly. Since I converted my 450 to FBL, I've been happy to fly at HS 2500 or so in all three flight modes, and my OWB has stood up to running governor mode with no signs of locking up and failing.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:20 PM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
1,093 Posts
Hey 2Doggs.

I found the fourm over at HK (never looked in there before). Lots of good info. Also saw where one person seemed to have a radio glitch, which sent his SB esc a momentary negative throttle. Because the SB is constantly recalibrating the throttle, he was unable to shut down the motor... I take these stories with a grain of salt.. (the internet is not known as being a source of truth. )

The funny thing is, I think I had a the newest version of the firmware when I got it. (I didn't write down the number) because my firmware did work with 4.01 and now (as we've been discussing) it doesn't. I sent an email to Hefei telling them my Kingkong 80 amp is not working with 4.01 and could they please send me the correct firmware. Just have to wait and see.

I'm pretty new to heli's and to be completely honest, governer mode scares me a little. It feels a little weird to just let it run at a given head speed with only the throttle hold to shut it down. When you talk about wearing out the OWB... what is that? and why would governer mode effect it?

Another quick question about G mode, I'm a little confused about something. When in G mode, if you set your throttle "curve" to flat 75% that translates into a given headspeed, 85% is a faster headspeed, and the esc will do it's best to hold the RPM steady given differnt loads (i.e. pitch up) So why do ESC's have High and Low governer settings? What is the diffenence between 75% on High vs 85% on low. (I don't know the math, but lets assume those two would give the same head speed.) why would one be better than the other? Does it have to do with the number of poles? Stuff like that?
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 02:00 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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SB stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
Hey 2Doggs.

I found the fourm over at HK (never looked in there before). Lots of good info. Also saw where one person seemed to have a radio glitch, which sent his SB esc a momentary negative throttle. Because the SB is constantly recalibrating the throttle, he was unable to shut down the motor... I take these stories with a grain of salt.. (the internet is not known as being a source of truth. )
But you'll probably see from some of my previous posts that I reckon a lot of people were getting premature thermal shutdown from running too low throttle - the SB seems to be sensitive to throttle values below 65% or so.

The other thing is RF interference, which can cause shutdown, but then as soon as the RF interference has cleared, you can restart by going to low throttle and then pushing the throttle/collective up.

All in all, the SB was getting too bad of a reputation from misinformed reviews, to my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
The funny thing is, I think I had a the newest version of the firmware when I got it. (I didn't write down the number) because my firmware did work with 4.01 and now (as we've been discussing) it doesn't. I sent an email to Hefei telling them my Kingkong 80 amp is not working with 4.01 and could they please send me the correct firmware. Just have to wait and see.
Good luck with that! I've always found the Hifei site really buggy, and I've never had a reply to any of my contact emails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
I'm pretty new to heli's and to be completely honest, governer mode scares me a little. It feels a little weird to just let it run at a given head speed with only the throttle hold to shut it down.
Governor mode is definitely not for everyone, as you say, you have to get into a different way of starting the heli - always starting off with the TX in throttle hold. That's a good habit to acquire anyway.

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Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
When you talk about wearing out the OWB... what is that? and why would governer mode effect it?
The one-way-bearing is a device that will allow the maingear to freewheel clockwise, without turning the motor, but to lock up counterclockwise. That allows the motor to power the main rotor, but, if you flip throttle hold or if for some reason the motor fried and seized, the main rotor can freewheel. It's main use is for doing autos. The bearing itself comprises a series of spring-loaded needle rollers, and the SB, in governor mode, can cause accelerated wear of both the bearing and the sleeve, called the mainshaft cover, that the bearing runs on. Like I said, I think it may be the sudden surges that accompany flipping from one flight mode and throttle value to another that cause the wear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexperience View Post
Another quick question about G mode, I'm a little confused about something. When in G mode, if you set your throttle "curve" to flat 75% that translates into a given headspeed, 85% is a faster headspeed, and the esc will do it's best to hold the RPM steady given differnt loads (i.e. pitch up) So why do ESC's have High and Low governer settings? What is the diffenence between 75% on High vs 85% on low. (I don't know the math, but lets assume those two would give the same head speed.) why would one be better than the other? Does it have to do with the number of poles? Stuff like that?
Some ESC's, such as the Hobbywing Platinum Pro, which also has a fairly decent governor mode, have a "High" mode for higher rpm, and a "Low" mode for lower rpm - so you choose the mode according to the motor rpm you want to set.

By contrast, you can set similar motor rpm in the SB "High" and "Low" governor modes - so I think that the two modes just use different means of trying to maintain a set rpm. In practice, I've found that the High mode keeps the rpm more constant on my 450, using a 6 pole 3450kV motor. To be honest, there isn't much of a difference, as you will probably see for yourself if you make use of the data logging feature. (to which I'm addicted!)

Another thing that can make a difference, that you might not experiment with right away, is the PWM setting. I run my 2215H and 2218H motors with PWM set to 16kHz, which seems to make them run more smoothly at part throttle. The downside is supposed to be slightly higher ESC temps, but I'm using a separate SBEC and don't have any thermal problems.

I just find the SB invaluable in tweaking my setup. For example, I can see that my full high and full low collective settings result in equal current draw, and that peak current is within the capacity of the battery packs. I can also see the voltage sag under load of different packs, and see that get worse as they age.

To get the most out of the SB, you need to be sure to make the ESC lead accessible, to make it easy to disconnect and to hook up to the linker and your pc.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 02:10 PM
devIAtion..one TX to bind them
Hexperience's Avatar
Canada, ON, Georgina
Joined Aug 2011
1,093 Posts
Thanks again...

As soon as you said OWB is One way bearing it clicked in.

I've been training myself to use throttle hold so once nice weather hits I'll head out and give it a try. Inside (big warehouse) all I do is hover the 500 for testing.
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