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Old May 07, 2015, 07:38 AM
lcsaba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yjin View Post
I just started trying to create my own flying site. Lots of questions as you can expect, ranging from how to create the panorama to editing the site and so on.
Problem is, the planes look disproportional in this site, i.e., the site appears bigger than it actually is in real world and thus the plane looks small.

In Phoenix builder, how to you specify the size of an object e.g. runway? What are the units used in PhoenixBuilder? For example, in position, 10.0, 0.0, 10.0, does it denote 10meter away in X and 10 meter away in Y, with 0 meter elevation? What does "scale" mean?

Appreciate your help!
I am not very much involved in site creations now, nevertheless I have made about 40 flying sites using Phoenix Creator.

I guess the best suggestion for you is to import an "official" flying site and see the attribute values.

An image (panoramic) has got no scale, size information. The pixel (RGB) values are defined at each direction.

As to model sizes.

1. Several times the model sizes have been discussed.
Those are correct. If you make an "empty" site (the cube faces are white, only the ground is defined, and start positions) you can get the distance of the model (using "flight info") and see that the model size is correct.

2. The projection of the cube faces are not related to the sizes and distances of the topology design, what you see must be correct.

3. The scale to be defined is used to modify the object sizes presented by the outliner tree.

4 The units are in cm 's.

5. The grid unit is presented at the top view is in meters but the sizes of the objects are in cm 's, as can be edited at the object attribute window (outliner tree).

6. The only thing I can imagine is the not correct distance specification of the start position.

If that is not correct, moving away the model size can not be OK.
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Old May 08, 2015, 10:10 PM
yjin is offline
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Thank you for your replay lcsaba.

I am attaching a screen capture of the problem I am trying to solve...

Basically, the "default 1" position shows about 16m from the reference point, and is quite a bit away from the edge of the grass. I know for a fact that in real world, the distance from the grass is about ~15m. If I move the "default 1" point to look like it's near the edge of the grass, the distance in its attribute would have to be set to about 40m.

What I want achieve is when the attribute is ~15m (1500), the "default 1" position shows up near the edge of the grass.

I've looked at a bunch of sample sites you guys have created but haven't been able to figure out how. I think I've probably missed something very simple but, please help


Quote:
Originally Posted by lcsaba View Post
I am not very much involved in site creations now, nevertheless I have made about 40 flying sites using Phoenix Creator.

I guess the best suggestion for you is to import an "official" flying site and see the attribute values.

An image (panoramic) has got no scale, size information. The pixel (RGB) values are defined at each direction.

As to model sizes.

1. Several times the model sizes have been discussed.
Those are correct. If you make an "empty" site (the cube faces are white, only the ground is defined, and start positions) you can get the distance of the model (using "flight info") and see that the model size is correct.

2. The projection of the cube faces are not related to the sizes and distances of the topology design, what you see must be correct.

3. The scale to be defined is used to modify the object sizes presented by the outliner tree.

4 The units are in cm 's.

5. The grid unit is presented at the top view is in meters but the sizes of the objects are in cm 's, as can be edited at the object attribute window (outliner tree).

6. The only thing I can imagine is the not correct distance specification of the start position.

If that is not correct, moving away the model size can not be OK.
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Old May 09, 2015, 04:27 AM
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The ground, as a default at Phoenix is an infinite sized horizontal plane.
If the real ground is tilted the ground plane should be tilted either.
But this might be a problem, depending on the fact if the ground is a "valley' or a "hill type.
I should think for a while to figure out in which axis should be used by you. If it is a must I will do.
But first please test it.
Don't forget to set the "y" coordinate of the start position properly.

If the real ground is not horizontal sometimes two plane can be used forming at the centre a "X" . (The centre is at the pilote position (x,y,z=0) This is OK if the ground "valley" type the centre is at the lowes point, If it is hill type, it will not work because in this case the colliding ground on the "other" side will climb to the heaven.
In this case h-map's should be used.
Sometimes it is not easy to work this out.

If you have a look at "Tempelhof" flying site which was several times tested and criticized by "Harald" you can see this effect. I was working on this for weeks.
To taxi on the runway the model should hit the far buildings at the ground level, and not at the third floor level, as an example.
http://members.iif.hu/laszlo.csaba/

It might be useful for you to study, Peninsula, and RCRC Huntswille, You will see some examples how difficult the constructiuon of a "Ground" could be.
By the way I guess RCRC Huntswille was my most comlex flying site I have ever made.
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Old May 09, 2015, 09:19 AM
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Some more:

If you look at comments of EPPforFUN (for instance page 29) you can find a series of recommendations about panorama photography.

The photos should be levelled. With other words the axis of the tripod must be vertical.

If this is not the case it can be corrected but only at stitching.
It is easy to see this bad effect, the horizon is forming a "S" character (rotated 90 degrees).

You might say that your site is flat and horizontal.
In this is case the reason of your distance problem is a hard lucky situation. In the direction of the model there is the highest or lowest point of your "S".
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Old May 09, 2015, 11:12 PM
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I have RCRC site on my computer and actually it was the very first one I tried to make sense of. Learned a lot from it - thanks for sharing!

I did try playing with the Y number. It seems that if I set the ground plane to -175 and the default 1 position to the same Y number, everything starts to look better.

This makes me think, how does Phoenix decide where the ground plane is with respect to the panorama? I mean for the same runway, the shape may look similar but size will be different in two panoramas one taken at a height of about 175cm (~my eye level) above ground vs. one taken at say 300cm above the ground.

I assume both could be used to construct a flying site. But since they are very different, there must be a way of telling Phoenix (or the PhoenixBuilder) that critical information. Am I missing anything here or the only way is to adjust the Y number for each object?

BTW, in RCRC site, many "ground objects" including the default positions appear to be set to Y=0 (or very close to 0, but they do look right in scale when flying. May I ask what was the height of the center (not sure if I'm using the right term - I'm referring to the height of the camera lens when taking the panorama) was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcsaba View Post
The ground, as a default at Phoenix is an infinite sized horizontal plane.
If the real ground is tilted the ground plane should be tilted either.
But this might be a problem, depending on the fact if the ground is a "valley' or a "hill type.
I should think for a while to figure out in which axis should be used by you. If it is a must I will do.
But first please test it.
Don't forget to set the "y" coordinate of the start position properly.

If the real ground is not horizontal sometimes two plane can be used forming at the centre a "X" . (The centre is at the pilote position (x,y,z=0) This is OK if the ground "valley" type the centre is at the lowes point, If it is hill type, it will not work because in this case the colliding ground on the "other" side will climb to the heaven.
In this case h-map's should be used.
Sometimes it is not easy to work this out.

If you have a look at "Tempelhof" flying site which was several times tested and criticized by "Harald" you can see this effect. I was working on this for weeks.
To taxi on the runway the model should hit the far buildings at the ground level, and not at the third floor level, as an example.
http://members.iif.hu/laszlo.csaba/

It might be useful for you to study, Peninsula, and RCRC Huntswille, You will see some examples how difficult the constructiuon of a "Ground" could be.
By the way I guess RCRC Huntswille was my most comlex flying site I have ever made.
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Old May 10, 2015, 05:52 AM
lcsaba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yjin View Post

This makes me think, how does Phoenix decide where the ground plane is with respect to the panorama? I mean for the same runway, the shape may look similar but size will be different in two panoramas one taken at a height of about 175cm (~my eye level) above ground vs. one taken at say 300cm above the ground.

I assume both could be used to construct a flying site. But since they are very different, there must be a way of telling Phoenix (or the PhoenixBuilder) that critical information. Am I missing anything here or the only way is to adjust the Y number for each object?
PhoenixRC simulator (all other simulators as well) has almost nothing to do with the panorama image. The projection is made by the graphical processor.

The photos are supposed to be taken at a height of 1.65m by your camera and if the photos are levelled and the axis of the objective is horizontal, the middle point of the photos will be at the centre of photos, at the height of the horizon (your eye level), and after stitching this line will be at the "X" axis (Y=0).
The levelling is which counts.
If this is OK, the panorama will be projected properly.

The simulator is assuming that the ground should be at the foot of the pilot and this is at x,y,z zero.
The virtual projector is at 1.65m.
Not advisable, to modify this height information, only if needed.
Of course the "ground" can be at low level, for instance at Peninsula, the sea surface is at -32m therefore the start position is at -32m for amphibious.

The Y setting is important for start positions, if the ground is not flat and horizontal. The model should "dropped" properly.
For other objects the only requirement, that the lowest points should be under the ground.
(I used to make tall objects and and pushed down until the top is at proper height.)

If I was facing problems like you have I made a temporary, vertical wall at a known distance, (at the edge of the grass)
Having a horizontal plane at Y=0, and seeing the point of taxiing model collision, one can judge if the pano is OK. and the ground is horizontal or not.

It is not necessary to define plane('s) at all, see "Stockholm bridge", some object must be nearby the foot of the pilot.
If no plane is present h-maps are used.
At "official" Countryside Hill, the plane is at -60 meters, and there is a h-map at the top of the hill.
Both cases nearby the pilot there is a height map at Y=0 level. The edges of it can be bushed up or down. See Countryside Hill.
Look at Stockholm bridge, you can see the h-map at Y=0, and the proper collision at a distance of 11m (nearby the nearest car), if simulator is used.
Don't forget, that the editors (Builder) are presenting objects from the potential pilot's point of view.
If the remote edge of h-map is not far, it will be at the ground level (Y=0) if far it will be higher.

You know my e-mail address, if send me e-mail attached, the six cube faces (JPG)
and the pano (70% quality), I might suggest something.
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Old May 11, 2015, 01:40 PM
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Simple stuff (what key combination to make a view full screen)

Hi,
What key combination do you use to make a view full screen?

I'm looking at the Phoenix Builder video of how to make a trainer and I'm stumped at the start of the tutorial because I am too dumb to know how to select and make one of the four views of the plane full screen!

Hmmm...
It looks like you have to select View/Panels/Single and then use the lop right drop down to select the actual view you require.
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Old May 11, 2015, 03:05 PM
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Old May 12, 2015, 01:15 AM
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SORRY
As to the Phoenix Builder/ Site is concerned I have forgotten something.
It is possible to rotate the virtual globe of pananorama image around yellow or green axes.
Panoram/New Cube Pano

This might be used. The effect of the rotation is identical to the rotation of the globe at stitcing program level.

The problem that using PhoenixCreator this rotation has an adverse effect.
I have so far no time to test this if Builder is used.
If needed I can test and explane the adverse effect of tis Creator feature later, if tested at Builder.

Please try to play with this.
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