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Old Oct 01, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Z View Post
There is a good chance the RX you get will have the newest version firmware in it.
If not you can send it to me if you want and I will update the firmware for you at no charge and send it back to you the same day.
I assume you are in the US.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=31


Also I sent you a PM here and on Helifreak also on 9-19-12.
I got Manny's Mini CP 3D receiver pot seting from him and posted a picture for you.
I PM'd Manny and talked to Dkfuji who let Manny 3D his heli and Manny set the pot setting on his helicopter
so I know what setting he used and where the pot position was.


http://helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=...5&postcount=14



Tom
I changed this trimpot to many values and notice NOT difference at all on the Mini CP behavior...

how is it supposed to work? More Gain = more responsive tail?

I also tried to upgrade the receiver firmware but despite of the software displaying a successfull message when I plug again the receiver still shows MiniCP 1.0... Is it how it works?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mescalinedream View Post
Anyone know if the minicp receivers currently available version 1.1? I am about to purchase a RX from Bob at helircstore who is waiting on a shipment of them. I dont have the upgrade adapter for the rx and was wondering if the Rx's he will be getting are already upgraded.

I had bought my minicp when it first came out and my rx was the old version. It was almost impossible to do funnels or even bank the minicp. I had read that someone upgraded there rx to version 1.1 and inverted funnels we easily possible. He could not do them before upgrading. Anyways, I have sent an email to Walkera also asking the same question. Has anyone recently purchased a RX and if so what does the sticker say on the RX? Or if there is no signs of the version number then can you do banking turns without the mini wanting to fight you?
My mini CP is from the beginning of this year and it was deliverd with 1.1
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Tom Z's Avatar
United States
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cururu1 View Post
I changed this trimpot to many values and notice NOT difference at all on the Mini CP behavior...

how is it supposed to work? More Gain = more responsive tail?

I also tried to upgrade the receiver firmware but despite of the software displaying a successfull message when I plug again the receiver still shows MiniCP 1.0... Is it how it works?



There is a noticeable difference turning the pot CCW or CW.
If you hold the heli in your hand and tilt it you will see
the servos move less going CCW and more going CW.
The gyros will stabile the heli more or less depending which direction you go on the pot.
At the 6 o-clock position the servos hardly move at all.
At the 5 o-clock position the servos move a lot.

When you give quick stick inputs or do 3D you can notice a difference with different pot settings.
At the position in my picture the heli is much more responsive as the gyros are not stabilizing the heli too much.


Less Gain = more responsive heli. More Gain = less responsive heli.
The tail response will stay the same no matter when you put the pot at.

That is how the update works. It will still display MiniCP 1.0 even after you updated the firmware to v1.1.


Tom
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 11:02 PM
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The "Flat" part of the EL/AIL Gyro Pot, can be considered as the "tail" of a "pointer/arrow". As indicated in the above diagram, the actual pointer of the arrow is at the opposite end of the Flat. The Pointer is difficult to physically see on the EL/AIL Gyro Pot because it is located inside the Pot. If you are using the Flat part of the EL/AIL Gyro Pot as an indication of where the Pot is "dialed", then you need to remember the Flat part indicates the "Tail" position which is actually 180 degrees from the Pointer.

Also, because of how most Pots are constructed, most Pots do NOT work over the entire range of a full turn. Most Pots only work in the 6 O-Clock portion/side of the range from 1 O-Clock to 11 O-Clock.

Take a look at the Mini's Pot in the below photo:



As pointed out, the EL/AIL Gyro's Pot's "Flat" is indicated correctly in the Photo; however, the "Pointer" is not accurately indicated by the "Red Dot" - the Red Dot should have been placed about 45 degrees CCW from where it is currently positioned. IMO, there is no need to paint a Red Dot to indicate Pointer's position as long as one remembers that the Flat is the "tail" of the Pointer, and the the Pointer is located exactly 180 degrees opposite from the Flat (i.e. the Pointer position is indicated by the "+'s" (plus's) "-" (minus) "arm" furthest away/opposite from the Flat).

Also, as viewed in the above photo, the Pot's 11 O-Clock position is physically the Pot's top-left solder tab, and the Pot's 1 O-Clock position is physically the Pot's top-right solder tab. The way the EL/AIL Gyro Pot is wired in the Mini's RX, when the Pot's Pointer is located at 1-O-Clock (Flat is at 7-O-Clock), it is the Pot's MINimum setting (least amount of EL/AIL Gyro stabilization), and when the Pot's pointer is located at 11-O-Clock (Flat is at 5-O-Clock), it is the Pot's MAXimum setting (most amount of EL/AIL Gyro stabilization). The "midnight" portion of the Pot's range of travel is undefined - in fact, most Pots are damaged if the Pointer is forced past the 11 and 1 O-Clock end points (forcing the Pot's Pointer past the Pot's 11 and 1 O-Clock endpoint detents ("speed" bumps - if a person is careful while making adjustments they can feel the Pot's pointer hit the "speed" bumps when the pointer reaches its designed end of travel) bends the pointer up and off the Pot's resistive contact surface area. If my above description is correct, then the "Zero" position is incorrect in the below diagram:



The "Zero" (minimum EL/AIL Gyro setting) is NOT actually located at the "midnight" position as shown in the above diagram, but is actually located at 1 O-Clock position as shown in the actual photo of the Pot. In other words, not only is there NO Gyro setting in the "Midnight" range between 11 and 1 O-Clock, but forcing the Pot's Pointer past the 11 and 1 O-Clock "speed" bump type of detents into the "Midnight" zone increases the likelihood of bending the Pointer and damaging the Pot.

In the below post there are YouTube videos that show how Variable Resistive POTentiometers are constructed, and may help further explain the reasoning behind my above descriptions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
...

Have you had an opportunity to closely look at the pot? Did you see the dark/black resistive "ring" under the Metal Tweak part? And notice that the dark/black ring isn't full circle? Also, 180* away from the Metal's Flat, there is a tiny metal "dimple" pointing downward toward the dark/black semi-ring?

After taking another look at the pot using a cheap magnifying glass, it looks like the "detents" I was trying to describe in the above post and barely feel when I reach the end of the Pot's travel is from the "dimple"/pointer" being stopped by the Pot's extreme Max and Min Solder Terminals. If this pot is like all the other pot's I've had, the Wiper's Solder Terminal is located in between the pot's two extreme terminals, and in this case it appears to be all the way on the other side of the pot (i.e. the two extremes are at what I call 11 and 1 O'Clock (toward the Rotor Head), and the Wiper's Solder Terminal is at what I call 6 O'Clock (toward the Landing Skid).

We've both "rolled" our own inductors, but have you laid a resistive line before?

If not, here's a tutorial video:
(NOTE: Variable Resistor = another name for POTentiometer)
Pencil Graphite as a Variable Resistor (1 min 38 sec)

Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
(notice how the LED varies in brightness depending on where the "Wiper" is positioned along the dark/black track)

Here's a video showing the inside of round Pots, similar to what is being used on the RX: (don't bother watching past 5:30, unless you want to know how to "lay" non-linear resistive tracks)
Potentiometers - How They Work, Disassembly and Exploration (9 min 22 sec)


Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Notice in the above video, how the Pot really wouldn't work at all if the Wiper is OFF the dark/black ring?

The reason why your's may be all over the place, may be because you have the wiper off the resistive "pad"/trace? Try re-adjusting the Pot so its "dimple"/wiper is not over the "white" non-conductive plastic, and instead is over the "dark" resistively conductive material.

Once again, IMO, the Pot's Metal's Flat spot is very misleading. If the location of the dimple/Wiper is too difficult for you to remember/see, then I recommend getting your favorite color fingernail polish and very carefully placing a microdot 180* away from the Metal's Flat, right above the "dimple"/wiper. WARNING: Don't get ANY polish under the dimple or on the dark resistive trace!

I've experimented having my Pot's "dimple"/Wiper all over the place between 1 and 11 O'Clock, and it is controllable anywhere in between; however, having the "dimple"/Wiper closer to 1 O'Clock (MIN? CCW) makes it more responsive to stick and "outside" influence; whereas having the "dimple"/Wiper closer to 11 O'Clock (MAX CW) makes it less responsive to stick and outside influence. IMO having the "dimple"/Wiper at 1 O'Clock would be like having a light virtual Flybar; whereas having the "dimple"/Wiper at 11 O'Clock would be like having a heavy virtual Flybar.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 12:25 AM
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Tom Z's Avatar
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Good post. That is a lot of information.

Walkera put the red dot on the pot not me, I don't know why they did that.
I can change flat spot to tail of the pointer on my picture and re-post it if that is what it should be.


Tom
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 03:15 PM
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Hey guys,
Wondering if you can help me out with a few problems I'm having with my mini. I'm a bit of a noob so forgive my definitions if they're not correct

1. When I apply full forward and right cyclic (?) it almost seems like the swash is binding on the mainshaft. After I land and move the right stick forward and right the blades stop almost instantly. If I try to turn the blade while holding the stick there they won't move. I can't see the mainshaft being bent at all, heli isn't vibrating either. Is this normal?
2. Positive pitch pumps seem to be bogged down quite a bit, but the negative ones seem normal, I feel like this could be related to problem 1.
Ideas?
3. I'm thinking I wanna do the brushless thing, mostly so I don't keep buying new motors, probably the C05 then? Best place to get the whole kit is probably chinesejade? anywhere else?
Thanks guys
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStack View Post
Hey guys,
Wondering if you can help me out with a few problems I'm having with my mini. I'm a bit of a noob so forgive my definitions if they're not correct

1. When I apply full forward and right cyclic (?) it almost seems like the swash is binding on the mainshaft. After I land and move the right stick forward and right the blades stop almost instantly. If I try to turn the blade while holding the stick there they won't move. I can't see the mainshaft being bent at all, heli isn't vibrating either. Is this normal?
2. Positive pitch pumps seem to be bogged down quite a bit, but the negative ones seem normal, I feel like this could be related to problem 1.
Ideas?
3. I'm thinking I wanna do the brushless thing, mostly so I don't keep buying new motors, probably the C05 then? Best place to get the whole kit is probably chinesejade? anywhere else?
Thanks guys
Binding between Main Motor Pinion and Main Gear? Verify there is atleast a hair's width air gap between Pinion and the Main Gear's as the Main Gear is rotated a full revolution.

A Servo has stripped internal Gear? Verify all 3 Servos freely move according to TX EL and AIL full range of motion commands. Below is a list of mod's most people think should be done to the Mini, and in that list there is a link to popular Servo Saver Mod(s):

Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Below are some mods many people believe should be done to the Mini CP as soon as possible:
  • Servo Saver mod - Bytemuncher's RCG Blog has detailed info.

  • RX Saver Mod - Attach a somewhat stiff support from bottom of Battery Tray so it extends inside the bottom of the Canopy and helps keep the Canopy from easily sliding upwards when it is hit from the bottom. Marioinc posted details. I think if this mod (or any other mod that keeps the bottom of the Canopy from easily pivoting upward) is performed, then there might not be a need to do the RX Coil Saver mod.

  • Canopy Saver Mod - Apply a strip of tape along the entire bottom edge of the Canopy. The Canopy is very durable; however, it easily splits starting from the bottom edge, and then over time the split travels towards the nose. Hopefully taping the entire bottom edge of the Canopy will prevent splits from starting.

  • RX Coil Saver mod - Apply adhesive (Hot Glue, X2 White Gorilla Glue, CA, etc.) to Coil at front lower right corner of RX board, so Coil doesn't break when Canopy is taken off (in a crash?). If the Coil lead(s) has broken from the PWB and the lead(s) is too short to re-solder to the PWB, it can be carefully unwound as required (one of the Coil's leads easily unwinds one loop at a time from the outside inwards; however the other lead has its end exposed but immediately get buried under all the windings - it that lead is too short, probably the other lead will need to be completely unwound, so the coil can be rewound with long enough leads at each end), rewind as necessary (depending on which Coil wire lead broke from PWB), and re-solder as required. I think the Coil can be replaced for about $0.35 + $2.80 shipping from DigiKey.com; however, we should get one and verify it works before publicizing the Part Number.

  • RX Antenna end - Keep it as vertical as possible - this will keep its exposed bare tip from electrically shorting against the Motor or RX circuitry, and have the Antenna positioned for best signal reception. Some people feel safer insulating (Liquid Electrical Tape, X2 White Gorilla Glue, Hot Glue, Heatshrink, etc.) the exposed wire at the tip of Antenna.


After the Servo Holder's - Canopy Holder Rod breaks from a strong crash, Hot Glue a 38 mm (1.5 inch) length of 1 mm CF Rod centered across the back of the Servo Holder above the Servo Holder Guide Pin and Screw Head. If at a later time the Servo Holder needs to be removed, the Hot Glue and Canopy Holder Rod can be removed as required.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Binding between Main Motor Pinion and Main Gear? Verify there is atleast a hair's width air gap between Pinion and the Main Gear's as the Main Gear is rotated a full revolution.

A Servo has stripped internal Gear? Verify all 3 Servos freely move according to TX EL and AIL full range of motion commands. Below is a list of mod's most people think should be done to the Mini, and in that list there is a link to popular Servo Saver Mod(s):
Probably have 2 hairs. The main gear spins quite freely when the sticks are centered, just when they're pushed to the extreme I notice some binding (or something?)

Servos move quite smoothly. If they were stripped there would a "dead spot" right? I don't have anything like that.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:58 AM
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Maybe disengage the Main Motor from the Main Gear, then try to reproduce the binding at the extreme stick movements while turning the Main Gear with your hand. When it starts to bind look for whatever it is that is stopping the Main Shaft from turning.

My Mini works fine, and the only thing that binds on it is if I try to move the Pitch Servos more than about 70% of their full travel capability, then the top 2 Links will bind with the Blade Grip Arms. Without some kind of Servo Saver Mod this type of Link binding will strip an internal Servo Gear (don't ask how I know ). But this type of binding wouldn't stop the Main Shaft from turning, it only stops the Servos from completing their full travel capability. The Walkera Mini User Manual states to have the Pitch Curve only go up to about 68% at full Throttle/Pitch stick movement, so if you follow their advice, then you shouldn't see this type of binding.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Which Parts to Buy?

Hi,

i am new to 6-channel Heli and i have decied to go for the Mini CP. i am placing the order soon. i am flying a 4 chanel now.

i would like to ask what are the parts that are most fragile and could need changing for a newbie to 6-channel, i would like to order the parts with the heli to minimize my grounding time. because i know for sure that i will break something

what are the most parts the gets broken in a crash and which parts do you recommend i should get with the purchase of the heli?
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeShO View Post
Hi,

i am new to 6-channel Heli and i have decied to go for the Mini CP. i am placing the order soon. i am flying a 4 chanel now.

i would like to ask what are the parts that are most fragile and could need changing for a newbie to 6-channel, i would like to order the parts with the heli to minimize my grounding time. because i know for sure that i will break something

what are the most parts the gets broken in a crash and which parts do you recommend i should get with the purchase of the heli?
You might want to consider the blade nano cp, getting parts for the blade should be easier much easier if you live in Europe.And the fact that its only half of the weight of the mini means its more crash durable.

The mini needs to be modded otherwise your going to have to stock up on spare servos or servo gears.

As for spare parts, id say feathering shaft, main shaft, blade grip, tail booms , canopys, landing gear and servos.

The servo saver & canopy / rx saver mods should always be done on a mini before the first flight.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 10:19 AM
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I've bounced off stuff in every possible direction many times and never had to replace the Feathering Shaft, Main Shaft, Blade Grips, or Canopy.

After incorporating the above Mods, the Tail Boom and Fin became my most common break items. To start off I'd get a spare Tail Assy without Motor, but for the longterm fixes I think most people make their own Tail Booms from CF Tube (1 m lengths available from RCFoam.com for about $2.50 + $8.00 shipping), and I "ghetto" fix the Tail Fin with scrap plastic until the Motor Holder is no longer repairable and doesn't hold the Motor anymore, and have to replace it with a new Tail Fin/Motor Holder.

I bought a Genius V2 Orange Canopy because it is easier to see when flying indoors against a dark background.

If you like crashing into hard stuff at full speed, then I'd also recommend getting a spare Collar, set of Links, and Landing Skid.

Edit: I had forgotten that the stock Collar is only sold with the Main Shaft. To date, I've been able to fix stripped and cracked Collars with CA, others have posted of not having problem with permanently CA'ing the Collar to the Main Shaft, and there have been photos and discussions in this thread about Delrin and Metal substitute Collars that can be used.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:56 PM
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Tomorrow I am sending a money order out to helircstore for my minicp receiver. It has been long overdue! Since early May I have been waiting for the funds to replace my RX. I had a problem with a cracked circuit and could only get the heli working by bending the main board. And until finally the light died out for good less then 3 days after the problem first started.

So now 6 months later and I hope to get my heli running in the next few days. What has changed though? I remember that I was rewinding c05's for more power. I have a few strong motors that make the blades flap and flutter but battery life is less then 2 minutes. Are there batteries now that can give those motors the life they need? I have a few that run over 8 with more power then stock c05. The problem I was having with more power was the tail would not hold. Has this been fixed since I have been gone?

Has someone figured out how to hold the tail solid without big money? Are we still at about the 7-8 minute flying mark? Or are we past that? Anything new? Any new mods, fixes that were unknown in May?

Anyways, its nice to be back!
I missed everything.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 09:16 PM
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hi mescaline

Welcome back.

I missed your colorful posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mescalinedream View Post
... I did manage to pick up some colorful nail polish for the heli.



and no, im not thev elephant guy........ hehe
BTW, I still haven't figured out the "elephant guy" comment.

I think itsmillertime was the "king" of posting about different BL Motor conversions in this thread. If I remember correctly, in some of his last posts a couple months ago, he was measuring 8k rpm. I forgot all the details but remember talk about piggybacking FETs on an ESC.

Yesterday, Tom Z started a new Review thread about a Plug-n-Play Astroid Dual Motor BL Kit for the Genius/Mini that is estimated to be available next week. I think Tom also has different BL Motor measurements posted in his other Mini Review thread.

I think the most "Earth shaking" mod that has been posted during the last 6 months, has been the "Deviation" software hack for the Walkera Devo 8 TX. It's been reported that with the hack, it is capable of controlling all the old 2.4 GHz "legacy" Walkeras, new Devos, as well as DSM2 and DSMX Spektrum stuff, and has a 250 model memory capability.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 07:48 AM
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Its good to be back! Good to know that you are still around too I812! I very much like reading your posts, very informative!

About the elephant guy comment........it was about my name. My name is Doug Groves and if you search my name on google then the mystery will be solved.

Funny picture, I flew in my living room and could never see the heli all that good. My kids had all this nail polish, and it worked! I can now see the heli.

Itsmillertime sent me a pm in may asking if I was still alive, I just responded to him last night. Still waiting on that. 8000 rpm sounds real nice. He probably is using a hp06 since the co5 couldnt do that.

The Deviation software was in its infancy when I had left. I am glad to see that it is finally available. Its too bad that it wont be for the Devo7 though since thats what I have.

Tomz the review guy huh, he started with a review on the minicp and look at him now. Everyone is sending him things to try out. Lucky guy! The dual brushless system is what we need! I had posted a vid with the genius double brushless kit onto the minicp, its heavy! Glad to see we have something lighter. I really want to have a stable tail more than anything!

One more thing, I want to again thank Bob at helircstore.com . I no longer have paypal(we were hacked and someone in India had tried to donate 3,000 dollars to themselves(they didnt get it though luckily!)) in which we used a greendot debit card through. So it denied me when I went to pay for the receiver. I had called Bob and he set one aside for me until I could send a money order. Our greendot is an issued Debit/Mastercard in my name and I emailed to ask why it couldnt be used. I had said that I was feeling anxious about flying and that a money order might take a few extra days. I received an email this morning telling me not to worry about the wait, he would send the receiver out today!

I was floored! Great guy he is. He had sent me the double brushless upgrade kit for the genius for free on my first order with him. I had called about ordering a few things and we spoke for about 2 hours. It is so unusual to find genuine people these days!

Anyways, glad to be back and I hope to contribute. see ya
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