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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:16 PM
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United States, NC, Wilmington
Joined Aug 2011
769 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Really? I find that hard to believe, that in 2012, radio setup is black majick? Also, all those questions are answered - even while knowing what the aircraft is, exactly what I want to do with it, and where, I still got bad advice... or rather, I got advice that lead to a system which didn't work very well. Not expecting that this issue will disappear overnight, just saying that's why Mike feels the way he does - as if he keeps buying the wrong stuff. I can identify with that, because I basically went through the same thing. The commercial outfitters are getting better and that will help... but still, I get the impression that most of those systems are hit and miss.
No the advice you got was wrong for you. That is why it is hard to get people to be forthcoming with what products to buy. What works for me in my rf environment may not work for you in yours, yes I understand someone local told you it would work. Your first FPV setup will have mistakes even if I let you copy mine. The fact of the matter is you can copy the equipment but not the experience. That is what most people are trying to tell the new guys although it gets lost in translation from keyboard to screen to readers brain. What he recommended probably does work for him, did you see it on his rig? Did he give you a ride along? I am sure you can give a guy all the parts to build a Trex 500 from ground to ceiling but would you give that list to someone who has never even flown a heli before? Also that guy isn't going to be able to take off and fly first time out we all know that. Its the same with FPV.

Local FPV guys are not going to give you the wrong advice when it comes to equipment because they want to still be able to fly tomorrow. What they are going to give you is what through their experience worked for them. When I help new guys locally I usually tell them up front that they better get realistic about what this hobby is. You are not going to build a first rig and fly like I do, or like someone in those videos that got you interested in FPV. You have to slowly learn what you can and can't get away with, I can't tell you because I certainly can get away with more than a new pilot but not as much as say IBCrazy. That is experience that allows it not what equipment is on the plane. And what I see the most often is people's expectations are that of GoPro footage quality in the goggles. That just isn't reality, and when they see it for themselves they freak and think something is AFU. You would be surprised at what pilots are flying through to get that awesome GoPro footage.

I feel your pain I was new once as well.


Now for the all caps portion of my wall.....

NEVER EVER USE SPEKTRUM FOR FPV. PERIOD NO MATTER WHAT SOMEONE SAYS YOU WILL HAVE A LOCK OUT AND LOOSE A PLANE SOONER OR LATER. WE SEE POSTS ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME. If you are reading that is one of the most popular pieces of advice given and cannot in no way be overlooked or missed.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:21 PM
KK4NOP
Mike Freas's Avatar
United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Aug 2005
3,370 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ror1 View Post
make sure you will have failsafe on that 72mhz radio
I'll have to stay in close with the 900mhz on the quad until I have enough money for a UHF radio system. At least the quad has auto fail safe. I really like FPV but the thought of loosing a plane will keep me from doing it until I'm sure my gear is better.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:22 PM
Crash....Fix......repeat.
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United States, UT, Eagle Mountain
Joined Jan 2012
451 Posts
The thing about FPV and RC is that every aspect of it is based on principles that are known and documented, whether they are simple or complex. Understanding these principles and concepts will help you in understanding how components fit together, why things work together and don't work together. It helps to hear feedback from people about what their results are from their own testing, but you can't replicate exactely the conditions under which they were tested. So, just because one person got a certain result doesn't mean that you will get that same result. Anyways, stepping off of my soapbox now.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 07:21 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
1,770 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
I could copy one of his systems, but he wouldn't tell me what exactly everything is. Why is that? Why would people rather wait and correct someone who did it wrong, than to help them get it right in the first place?

If someone wants to know how to put together a Trex helicopter, I can give them a list of parts and instructions on how to adjust everything, NOTHING is left out - I can give you ALL the info you need to build that helicopter right, and how to check to make sure it's right. Information like that for FPV is rare, and just when you think you've found it, other information says that information is wrong. It's very confusing - it's like a giant brick wall in front of beginners. I'm pretty darn smart and I am so frustrated with it right now that I'm waiting until winter and then I'm going to be doing ground-based FPV until I'm confident with my system.
The problem is variables. For conventional RC flight the list of variables to go
wrong is lower so there's a larger error window. For FPV there's so many
things functioning together in unison that the error window is small. When
you have systems working together with other systems you're greatly
complicating the relative freedom you have to make errors. Take your trex
helicopter example, you can tell someone exactly how to assemble it
because the number of variables is low. You can tell them the proper
assembly and the way to check to make sure its assembled correctly
because there's only so much that they could do wrong. With FPV you can't
do that because, unlike the helicopter, the performance not only depends on
the plane itself but other variables as well. With FPV you have to consider
not only that everything is put together correctly, already hard when you
begin to complicate wiring with more and more components, but how these
components interact with each other. And that's just the plane, you
still also have to consider other things like what the RF environment is like
where the plane is flying. When you sum it all up, the exponential increase in
things that you have to get right (variables), compared to normal RC, is why
it's all so difficult. The only way to solve this problem is to actually do hard
research on what you are doing. It's not easy and should never be
advertised as so. You have to know a wide range of technical skills to
really get inside that error window that allows for truly successful FPV flight.

-Blues
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 07:48 PM
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United States, MI, Kalamazoo Township
Joined Aug 2006
2,397 Posts
So is spektrum with a satalite rx ok at 1km with 5.8 Video?
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 10:03 PM
Closed Account
Joined May 2012
224 Posts
Hey alex, I posted on FPV labs but thought I might ask here too. Shielding? I have everything wired up and really don't want to buy CAT-6, is there anything I can do t shield the wires without redoing everything?
2.3hz 700mw tx
TBS EZOSD
sony 600tvl camera
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 10:44 PM
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eroeder's Avatar
United States, TX, Frisco
Joined Jan 2004
993 Posts
Wow,
Maybe that explains it!
I had an odd issue the other day that I figured it was either a bad battery resulting in loss of power, or I lost 2.4GHZ. I had some weird messages on my Eagle OSD about loss of control, but I still had control so I thought it was odd. Flew for a minute or so more and was working back to land when it seem to quit responding and just went sinking into the trees wings level (thanks to the stabilization). Not much damage, but boy was I happy my 433MHZ LRS came in the mail. Another guy lost his 2.4GHz help in the same are I lost mine too. All very odd...
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
38 Posts
I need a Range estimate please!
I'll be using the dragonlink kit and a Spektrum DX6i transmitter. For camera, I'll be using a gopro. This is all mounted on a quadcopter and my surroundings are mostly flat with a canyon, and some neighborhoods (suburb)
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:36 AM
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IBCrazy's Avatar
Amherst, VA
Joined Jun 2006
10,453 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glmccready View Post
Alex: I have noticed that you try an dissuade people from Spektrum. Is there a particular problem with Sprektrum and FPV or just Spectrum in general? I've been using a DX8 for about a year and a half, but just started FPV, so I'm curious. I haven't had much trouble since the DX8 recall last summer, before that it was a balls up mess!
Thanks,
Gary in Salisbury, MD
Spektrum was designed for flying within line of sight without a noisy FPV transmitter screaming in its ear. Once you introduce distance more distance and a noisy FPV transmitter, Spektrum simply cannot handle it. It's not the transmitter that's the problem, it's the receiver.

On the other hand, 35 and 72 MHz systems have been refined for years trying to fix the problem with people running their antennas poorly and coiling them up inside the airplane or winding them around a helicopter landing gear. The bands are so far away from the FPV video bands that despite the FPV transmitter nearby, the natural physics of wave propogation and filtration allows better rejection of the FPV signal inside the airplane's RX. Thus 72 and 35MHz tend to work better. They also have this one feature: glitching. That's right, they glitch, then control is restored. Spektrum doesn't glitch, it locks. Once it locks, it takes several seconds before it will resume operation when signal is restored. That's several seconds you do not have control when the aircraft is a good distance away from you.

Of course there's always LRS. The problems with LRS are being fixed as the systems get refined. Unfortunately LRS isn't cheap...

-Alex
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:37 AM
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Amherst, VA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by at3whee View Post
I need a Range estimate please!
I'll be using the dragonlink kit and a Spektrum DX6i transmitter. For camera, I'll be using a gopro. This is all mounted on a quadcopter and my surroundings are mostly flat with a canyon, and some neighborhoods (suburb)
Umm... that's nowhere near enough information. What about your video system?

-Alex
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:39 AM
Engineer for Christ
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Amherst, VA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonFlite View Post
Hey alex, I posted on FPV labs but thought I might ask here too. Shielding? I have everything wired up and really don't want to buy CAT-6, is there anything I can do t shield the wires without redoing everything?
2.3hz 700mw tx
TBS EZOSD
sony 600tvl camera
I use servo wires. In fact, I don't even bother twisting them up. I have had no problems thus far. You only need to start implimenting solutions if there is a problem.

-Alex
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimTMich View Post
So is spektrum with a satalite rx ok at 1km with 5.8 Video?
Probably. 2.4GHz control and 5.8GHz video seem to play ok together for most people. Keep it in line of sight and for safety, use a ground recorder if you can. This way if it goes down, you can review the footage and find it.

-Alex
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 08:33 AM
Gary
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United States, MD, Salisbury
Joined Mar 2011
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Alex: Thanks for the response. I'm not looking for much distance with my multirotors. So I assume it is not just Spektrum but all 2.4gz systems that can have problems? i do have failsafe return to home on both my FPV birds, just in case.
I've been flying HK 5.8gz 200mah, and Spektrum DX-8 for about 20 flights without a glitch, at least loss of signal, as far as i can tell. Only going out about 800 ft max. I do need a ground recorder though, I'd like to see the OSD data.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
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Back to shielding wires using audio stereo shielded wire and using the shielding as ground..

Im guessing thats not apropiate for a PPM encoder?

I use a PPM encoder to encode the Rx chanels into one PPM thread... and to plug all 7 chanels i use 3 servo leads.. one in the chanel 1 + 5V + ground and the other 2 put perpendicular in the other 6 signal pins..
If i change those 3 wires im guessing 2 chanels (4 and 7 , tought 7 is not used) would be throught the shielding so they would pick interference?

If i change those 3 servo leads to much shorter ones (now they are like 15cms so i have to wrap them arround the PPM encoder... i could shorten them down to 2 or 3 cms ) would that decrease RF picking?

Also i asked before but got no answer...
is it recomdended to shield the Video Tx wire? (from OSD to VTX)
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 11:24 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,419 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshy View Post
The problem is variables. For conventional RC flight the list of variables to go
wrong is lower so there's a larger error window. For FPV there's so many
things functioning together in unison that the error window is small. When
you have systems working together with other systems you're greatly
complicating the relative freedom you have to make errors. Take your trex
helicopter example, you can tell someone exactly how to assemble it
because the number of variables is low. You can tell them the proper
assembly and the way to check to make sure its assembled correctly
because there's only so much that they could do wrong. With FPV you can't
do that because, unlike the helicopter, the performance not only depends on
the plane itself but other variables as well. With FPV you have to consider
not only that everything is put together correctly, already hard when you
begin to complicate wiring with more and more components, but how these
components interact with each other. And that's just the plane, you
still also have to consider other things like what the RF environment is like
where the plane is flying. When you sum it all up, the exponential increase in
things that you have to get right (variables), compared to normal RC, is why
it's all so difficult. The only way to solve this problem is to actually do hard
research on what you are doing. It's not easy and should never be
advertised as so. You have to know a wide range of technical skills to
really get inside that error window that allows for truly successful FPV flight.

-Blues
Sure yeah, I understand that. I just don't like it
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