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Old Oct 25, 2004, 01:10 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
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Cool
How do you know when there is enough lift?

I still pretty new to this slope stuff. Loving it with my Zagi 3C, but still in deep learning mode.

So, we get to the slope yesterday, check wind direction. It's blowing straight in but not super strong. So, how do I know if I should toss out or go home?

Some slope sites, it isn't a real problem so I can make a test launch and if it is no good, a brief walk and I am OK. However other sites would be challenging to go get he model.

How do you know?
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 01:50 PM
Toy Flyer
glover's Avatar
Flying Field, Work Bench
Joined Mar 2004
612 Posts
Get a Pro Weasel or DiscusLaunchGlider, tip launch them HIGH, and fly the edge of the slope. Light lift slope toys can be a lot of fun. I also carry a small electric or two (MiniSpeedWing is a great example) whenever I'm going to the slope (it's guite a drive for me to get to a slope)
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 01:52 PM
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Ib Jensen's Avatar
Forest Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
543 Posts
I have not found a perfect method for deciding when to throw either. The adiabatic has an effect as does the angle of the hill. I have been on hills where I couldn't keep my hat on but there was no lift due to an inversion that compressed the air over the hill top but didnít allow air to rise. At other times/locations there was almost no wind at the top of the hill but all the air was going up and a brick would fly. With experience you can get a feel for a location and know, but then a down draft can come through and put you right down.

Not much help I know, but experience is the best teacher.

Get a Down Plane Locator beeper. Never go sloping without one installed. It is amazing how close you can be to your ship in tall grass or trees and not see it.

Ib
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 01:59 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
Joined Apr 2002
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Bottle caps make great lift testers. You can flick them off into the wind and they will fly like a frisby. If there is a lot of lift, they will hover or even climb and fly back over your head.

Or you can have a dedicated light wind plane that you can throw off first to check the lift before throwing the heavy ones.

Russ.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:13 PM
PlaneCrazy
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Central California
Joined Sep 2003
2,540 Posts
Toss it, if it stays up there was enough, if it sinks there wasnt all kidding aside, every slope is different and every day is different, at the same slope there are days where a plane may fly in a 5mph wind and other days it is 8mph and the same plane wont stay up, there are a few different things you can do, let other planes in the air help you decide, use a foamy to test the lift, bring multiple planes and start with the light ones first, I have planes that I know I can throw hard enough than if the lift isnt there I can circle around and land or on the foamies I will just turn around and land downwind, also have used my light electric powered gliders to test light conditions, yesterday guys were using there HLG to test. after awhile you will get the feel for it and im sure like alot of us, there will be that time when you end up having to go for the long hike or learn mountain climbing. just dont risk injuring yourself for a toy, some guys at certain slopes even bring ropes.

good luck
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:15 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ib Jensen
Get a Down Plane Locator beeper. Never go sloping without one installed. It is amazing how close you can be to your ship in tall grass or trees and not see it.
Ib
I totally agree with you on this point. I have these in my electrics, sailplanes and slope gliders. I seem to have a propensity to find the 3C in 50 foot high trees. Is EPP attracted to trees? - Thank goodness for that Beep Beep Beep!

Some guys bring ropes? Yea, I got ropes with weights on the end. I use 'em to get my plane back from those nasty trees!!!!

As for the lift tests - Great input.

An electric test plane would work for me. I have an Aerobird. I will test it on the slope next time when the lift is good and see how it behaves. Then, as you suggest, I can use it as a test plane. If the lift is too light, just light up the motor and fly it back. I think its wing loading is higher than the ZAGI, but it glides very well.

Bottle caps? Would never have thought of that one.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:22 PM
characters welcome!
Mark Wood's Avatar
United States, CA, Bear Valley Springs
Joined Feb 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr
Bottle caps? Would never have thought of that one.
I know what I'm going to be doing at North Torrey next weekend. I just need to go stock up!

mw
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:34 PM
Diggin the Foam
Tonasty's Avatar
Denver Arapahoe, Colorado, United States
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafury_fb11
Bottle caps make great lift testers. You can flick them off into the wind and they will fly like a frisby. If there is a lot of lift, they will hover or even climb and fly back over your head.
Russ.

Isn't that littering?
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:42 PM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
Joined Apr 2002
3,906 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonasty
Isn't that littering?
Hmmm... a somewhat philosophical question. If you find a bottlecap on the ground and use that, then did you actually do the littering, or did you just move a piece of litter from one place to another?

Russ.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 02:45 PM
plane obsessed
Cody WIlson's Avatar
Denver, CO.
Joined Nov 2003
3,889 Posts
LOL- yeah it is. God knows how many winglets I've lost! Those make good indicators too! If they float back- it's good.

Aeajr- I have heard of many people slopeing their aerobirds- perfect test ship!
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 03:54 PM
It could happen...
InTheLift's Avatar
Torrance, California
Joined Jan 2004
7,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ib Jensen
a brick would fly
Huh...Wha?!?!?...It could happen...

No definite way to know if you have enough lift to fly unless you commit and give it a throw. Scary thing when recovery is questionable. Only experience at a given slope can help here. It's a nice thing if you can afford to buy a "wind checker" like a DLG or something. If that is not possible, you'll have to know the limits of your launching/flying capabilities of the plane you have. Can you launch it high enough to fly out into what should be the lift band and back to where you can land it safely and in a place that you can recover it? Not sure?...go to an empty field, ball field or something and start throwing the thing. Get a feel for what can be done from a good hand launch. Good luck and if you are still unsure, save it for another day.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 03:57 PM
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This is such an interesting conversaion. Thanks everyone for the great info and the humor!
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 03:58 PM
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Rochester New York
Joined Feb 2004
622 Posts
I bring my boomer with me all the time. it is a discus launched wing inexpensive yet high performance. I get 80 foot launches. and even when there is no slope lift for more then a few passes often there are slermals around as I fly inland sites quite a bit.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 03:59 PM
I'm your huckleberry
Doc Holiday48's Avatar
USA, CA, Gardena
Joined Jun 2004
1,814 Posts
In the days before wind gauges. I would stand right on the edge and hold my hand straight out, you could usually fill the air moving up. Now I have a wind gauge and do the same thing. Kind of point it facing down the face as well as out in front to get a reading of wind velocity as it comes up the face of the slope. another thing I tried to do is find a spot on the cliff or slope that is a little higher and launch form there. This way I could glide accross the edge feeling for any lift and still be able to turn back to the slope and land before I lost to much altitude. A Zagi that is trim and ballanced properly and given a good launch should be able to go quite far even with only about ten feet higher launch point. Again experience with your plane it's capabilities and knowledge of the slope helps a lot.
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Old Oct 25, 2004, 04:07 PM
It could happen...
InTheLift's Avatar
Torrance, California
Joined Jan 2004
7,537 Posts
Another fairly inexpensive option is a small bungee launcher. (Not that you said money was an issue, it's just that I'm a cheap SOB! Why I was so desperate for a heavy sloper, I once put wings on a brick! )
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