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Old Dec 13, 2014, 05:41 PM
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Tarot Ironman 650 Setup???

Hi guys.

I'm trying to find a setup for the ironman650. I'm playing with ecalc for 1 week now, but I can't find a setup which fits my needs:
max. 3s or 4s 5800mah 1 Pack
max. 15 inch props
flighttime 15min+

My planned addons:
H3 3D
GoPro 4
iOSD
FPV
Naza V2

So calculated the weight WITHOUT motors and esc's would be around 1530g with a 5800 4s and around 1400 with a 3s 5800 pack...

Would be really nice if you could help me out
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Old Dec 13, 2014, 07:46 PM
Wisconsin
United States, WI, Hayward
Joined Jan 2012
688 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve2303 View Post
Hi guys.

I'm trying to find a setup for the ironman650. I'm playing with ecalc for 1 week now, but I can't find a setup which fits my needs:
max. 3s or 4s 5800mah 1 Pack
max. 15 inch props
flighttime 15min+

My planned addons:
H3 3D
GoPro 4
iOSD
FPV
Naza V2

So calculated the weight WITHOUT motors and esc's would be around 1530g with a 5800 4s and around 1400 with a 3s 5800 pack...

Would be really nice if you could help me out
If you use 3508 or 3110 700kv motors you won't have any trouble wtih those requirements.

I have a tutorial at the beginning of my blog about eCalc if it might help.

Cheers
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 04:52 AM
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Your tutorial helped alot, but somehow I cant even get 10 min. flighttime with the 3508/3110 700kv motors!
Do you have another thought?
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 08:45 AM
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can nobody help me?
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 11:21 AM
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United States, WI, Hayward
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Originally Posted by Steve2303 View Post
can nobody help me?
Steve,

Post a screen shot of your eCalc page so I can see exact what you are doing.
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 03:16 PM
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What did I do wrong??
1500g is the weight with a 4s battery + frame + naza + gimbal + gopro+ fpv
sunnysky 3508 700kv motors + 13" props

Do you know a better setup?
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 03:42 PM
Wisconsin
United States, WI, Hayward
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve2303 View Post
What did I do wrong??
1500g is the weight with a 4s battery + frame + naza + gimbal + gopro+ fpv
sunnysky 3508 700kv motors + 13" props

Do you know a better setup?
You are not really doing anything wrong. eCalc is just telling you the way it is. First 700kv is a 3s motor, you will get max effeciency at 3s. You need to try a 600kv or 580kv for best effeciency at 4s. Two you are heavy at 1500g. You will find if you shave of even 100g of weight your flight time goes up minute. Every little detail is critical to maximize flight time. Third to get longer flight times with this heavy a rig a bit more battery is needed, try an 8000mah and see how that affects flight time.

This is where ecalc shines. Start refining things, a little less weight, a better match in motor vs battery, and prop size/pitch.

It is helpfull to read the threads on the same build as yours and look at the successful builds.

good luck
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Old Dec 14, 2014, 11:39 PM
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New Zealand, Northland, Hikurangi
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Originally Posted by Steve2303 View Post
can nobody help me?
If its any help, I've set my 650 up with SunnySky 4108 480kv motors using 16x55 props, I'm regularly getting 17 - 19minutes flight time using a 5600mah battery

This particular motor doesn't seem to be spec'd on ecalc. They are available here

http://www.fpvmodel.com/sunnysky-x41...raft_g292.html
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 12:15 AM
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Mike, check the power usage for that Sunny Sky motor; right at the limit. An APC 14x4.7 SF puts it over the top; they don't make a 4 pitch SF.

I don't find ECalc all that accurate, at least with my configuration. It is way off on its co-axial calculations.

My latest copter is a Sky Hero Spy 750 Y6. I bought 10 motors originally for a X8, but decided on another Y6
AUW: 3100g
Motors: KDE 2814XF-515
Props: 1) 14x5.5 APC MR 2) Gemfan TM 15.5.5 CF (seems to work best out of the two)
ESC: ZTW Spider 30A OPTO (had sync problems with Maytech)
Battery: 10A Multistar 10c 4s
FC: Pixhawk

Still working out the PID's, but flight time exceeded expectations @>20 min
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So there are 4 extra motors, not sure what to do with them. I was looking at the CNC Heli Beholder Valkyrie 650 , looks like a decent frame, but the Tarot 650 has many more readily available attachments.

This will probably be the build:
Tarot 650 frame
Motors: KDE 2814XF-515
ESC: HobbyWing Quattro 25A That is the way to go IMO; saves quite a bit of weight and makes for a much cleaner build.
Props: Most likely TM style, but is not a choice in the list. That also saves weight.

According to ECalc, here are the results (probably lower than reality):
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Last edited by slimething; Dec 15, 2014 at 12:54 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillNZ View Post
If its any help, I've set my 650 up with SunnySky 4108 480kv motors using 16x55 props, I'm regularly getting 17 - 19minutes flight time using a 5600mah battery

This particular motor doesn't seem to be spec'd on ecalc. They are available here

http://www.fpvmodel.com/sunnysky-x41...raft_g292.html
It's in the list, but not the free version.

At the same base weight and battery using the Sunny Sky x4108s-480kv motors, according to ECalc, the motors are at risk of overheating with props bringing the throttle to ~50% hover:

The KDE is a beast of a motor and will be hard to equal/beat in this class, but comes at a cost of course.
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Last edited by slimething; Dec 15, 2014 at 01:00 AM. Reason: changed prop specs
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by slimething View Post
It's in the list, but not the free version.

At the same base weight and battery using the Sunny Sky x4108s-480kv motors, according to ECalc, the motors are at risk of overheating with props bringing the throttle to ~50% hover:

The KDE is a beast of a motor and will be hard to equal/beat in this class, but comes at a cost of course.
They must have recently added the 4108 480 as it wasn't there when I built my 650 about 6 weeks ago, here is my calc, my motors come down barely warm.
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Last edited by phillNZ; Dec 15, 2014 at 02:49 AM. Reason: wrong prop size
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by phillNZ View Post
They must have recently added the 4108 480 as it wasn't there when I built my 650 about 6 weeks ago, here is my calc, my motors come down barely warm.
Yes, the AUW for your setup is >700g lighter

Is 35% mid throttle @hover correct?
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Last edited by slimething; Dec 15, 2014 at 11:06 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by slimething View Post
Yes, the AUW for your setup is >700g lighter

Is 35% mid throttle @hover correct?
That was the weight on the scales including the battery, hover via the pixhawk is at 499 so 50%, she flys I believe really well. (I have next to no experience with multicopters this was my first build).

I pretty much took the setup from another post on another forum after spending hours reading about quads, going to do the Tarot 690 over the xmas break, but actually now wondering if a mini might have been a good introduction to further developments such as FPV

If I could offer one piece of advice for new flyers it would be fit some LED's I have white to the front, red & green on the sides and blue facing aft, really helps with orientation when learning to fly.
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 01:55 PM
Wisconsin
United States, WI, Hayward
Joined Jan 2012
688 Posts
Remember that getting a warning for power or temp is not a bad thing if you are close to max spec. You want to use the full range of your motor and if you fly AP all the time you can be closer or a bit over because you may never go to that limit in your flight. So your max values should be up near the max range of the motors. I find eCalc to be quite accurate if I enter accurate data. Like everthing in multirotors the devil is in the details. There is no free lunch every gram counts. Measuring the actual weight of every single item in your build counts, then use the custom settings in eCalc to make your estimates more accurate.

Also it is fine to choose say a slow-fly prop and even tho APC may not sell one someone else does with similar specs.

Keep it as light as possible, large props with low pitch and the right kv for the choosen battery for long flight times!
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Old Dec 15, 2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by phillNZ View Post
That was the weight on the scales including the battery, hover via the pixhawk is at 499 so 50%, she flys I believe really well. (I have next to no experience with multicopters this was my first build).

I pretty much took the setup from another post on another forum after spending hours reading about quads, going to do the Tarot 690 over the xmas break, but actually now wondering if a mini might have been a good introduction to further developments such as FPV

If I could offer one piece of advice for new flyers it would be fit some LED's I have white to the front, red & green on the sides and blue facing aft, really helps with orientation when learning to fly.
If you're at this point of successful flight without a major crash and it's your first ever, then you are doing very well. Good job!

Now that you said you're using Pixhawk, so am I. Is that 499 value Thr_out or Thr_in? Would you mind posting/linking a .bin file? The 35% # in ECalc is intriguing if your throttle is at 50% actual. I'd be interested in seeing the Curr values. Or you could just post screen caps.

After having two Y6's and a small quad, I think the next one will be a another somewhat larger quad.
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