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Old Oct 18, 2012, 03:45 PM
Registered User
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Mar 2010
400 Posts
New Product
New X10 "The Viper"



I know almost nothing about this but it looks like an X-8 competitor.

From Electric Jet Centre, a company I'd never head of.

http://greenairdesigns.com/ejc/index...ying-wing.html

From the page:
2.75m Flying Wing.

Breaks down to 3 pieces of 900mm (Max)

Payload 2-2.5kg

Requires:-
2 x 16g+ Metal geared servos

3542 800kv Motor or equivalent (able to turn a 12x6 to 14x8 prop, payload dependent)

80A+ ESC (gives a safe margin)

4s cells (motor dependent)
(all appropriate glues & adhesives required)
Its worth noteing that we are now working on a dedicated retractable camera gimbal for this and all our up and coming aircraft.



Now I'm glad I didn't run out and buy the X8. Of course, by the time I actually pull the trigger and order they will have the X74.

Thoughts?
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Do keep in mind it's 225.00 or roughly $360 and we don't even know
what material it's made of, or what the space inside the cockpit looks like.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:07 PM
McCleary.11's Avatar
United States, OH, Delaware
Joined Mar 2006
764 Posts
Does anyone know if the company listing this wing is the actual manufacturer? If not, do we know who is?
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:01 PM
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Mar 2010
400 Posts
A little more info.
The plane was designed by Dr.Mike Black over at DIYDrones.

More from the site:
"Airframe can be hand launched or bungeed.

Using our new XF build technology in conjunction with S.G.S the kit has 8 main parts to complete the airframe and all of the hardware (Steel tubular spar and sleeving, wing securing mounts and bolts, horns push rods etc.)

We even supply all of the covering (Carbon look vinyl) and decals

NOTE: I thought when covering our protos with vinyl lt was going to be a pain (not ever having done it before), but i covered the whole aircraft in less than 3 hours, with the use of a hairdryer, it is possible to pull the vinyl completely around the compound curves of the fuselage. I think due mostly as the vinyl we supply is drape vinyl, so with a small amount of heat its very easy to do. Also it adds a huge amount of strength to the airframe with minimal added weight. 9oz over the whole ship...
...We are flying ours on 4s 2 x 5000mah cells & 13x7 prop.

This gives us a flight time of about 35mins (you dont need full throttle apart from launch)

WOT gives 18mins

The aircraft is capable of carrying 4 sets of 4s 5000's, but this affects the payload space.

With its incredibly low drag and stability, loiter (for us) is about 1/4 throttle at around 35mph

Cruise is around 50mph 2/3rd throttle

WOT is about 75mph

These figures have been taken over all the testing from our onboard telemetry."

The entire development of this plane was documented here:
http://greenairdesigns.com/gadejcfor...hp?topic=247.0
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:49 PM
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chancesAU's Avatar
Australia
Joined Apr 2008
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Wonder what the kit itself looks like??
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 03:26 AM
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Finland, Pirkanmaa, Valkeakoski
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More than double the price of the X8... That's simply ridiculous!
I don't really think, this is a competitor to the X8. At 199 USD, the X8 was already overpriced and a total niche-product. But who besides a handfull of professional UAV types and half a handfull rich r/c aircraft fanatics is gonna pay 366 USD / 277 EUR for a naked plane / kit?

Edit:
Besides - the plane is named "Viper" but they put a cobra on the winglet... LOL...
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 04:04 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Blue foam..
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 04:59 AM
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Uppsala, Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
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I guess they know they're competing with the X-8, the design is IMO a rip-off.

However what in this design is better then on the X-8?
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:22 PM
Registered User
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Mar 2010
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I'm not endorsing this plane. I just saw it and liked the look of it, just like I liked the look of the X8. I'm always looking for that plane that does everything (for me) and thought this might be a step in the right direction. It seems like all I have to do is wait and, eventually, every possible airframe will become available.
I find the critical feedback on everything much more informative than the raves.
I completely agree that $350+ is way over prices for a kit, airframe only. Also, 35 minutes is way way way too short. The Techpod has proven 2 hour flights and that's only $250.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
On a holiday?
boopidoo's Avatar
Uppsala, Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
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If you want duration maybe build a monster QB such as Alex/Elcheapo. He has flown 80+km using 3S20Ah. Or why not use thermals like Roberto?

I kind of like the X8 as well but there's alot I don't like as well. This is why I thought they might've taken the chance to improve it but I don't see any clear design improvements?
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 03:47 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
Joined Feb 2011
2,098 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Go View Post
At 199 USD, the X8 was already overpriced and a total niche-product. But who besides a handfull of professional UAV types and half a handfull rich r/c aircraft fanatics is gonna pay 366 USD / 277 EUR for a naked plane / kit?
It's not really that overpriced for a plane of that size and wingspan though. There are plenty of kits, naked EPO foam molded planes that are ridiculously cheap to manufacture, that are similarly expensive and often even smaller in size. Let alone the fact that many kit combos for the same price that are basically RR and include a motor, prop, esc, servos and such in one package really are quite mediocre in performance. If you want the best performance, you'll usually want to choose your own setup anyway or you'll have to pay a premium price.

I wouldn't buy the X8 nor X10, but I do think some of these more expensive kits are worth the investments in the long run. This wing seems to be genuinely aimed at the UAV market though, which is somewhat outside of the general RC FPV market even and we all know niche products will always be a little bit too expensive.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:32 PM
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Finland, Pirkanmaa, Valkeakoski
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UAV market meaning MIL/LEO? Currently, I don't think a foamie would sell in the (NATO) MIL markets because I doubt, it would match the applicable STANAGs, especially, STANAG 4671 (airworthyness). As the STANAG 4671 is an adaptation of the European Aviation Safety Agency's CS-23 (civil airworthiness), at least for Europe, also LEO would be out.
From what I have heard, Australia has similar or even stricter airworthiness rules for non-hobby UAV operators and in the US, UAV operations currently is only legal for hobby purposes and for the military.

That leaves as potential customers hobby-users worldwide and MIL/LEO/commercial users in areas with less strict or no regulations... Not so many, I guess .

Edit:
I forgot one point. Professional users usually don't have the motivation nor the time to assemble a kit themselves, so the fact that the X10 is sold as a full kit speaks IMHO for hobby-users as intended target-audience.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 06:50 AM
http://www.greenairdesigns.com
mjblack's Avatar
Norwich, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Jan 2004
886 Posts
HI guys,

This thread was brought to my attention by a friend, and would like to thank the poeple who mentioned us, as i hadn't been raving about the Viper on the net, as the FPV version was suggested to me, to be sold for thos who might need something a litl bigger and stronger that what is out there at the moment.

A few points that might help inform......

X8/X10..In honesty it was coincidental, I was working on a UAS, and wanted something that would carry what i needed, simple to assemble, and very strong.

Once i told people about it and arbitrarily called it an X-10 (as we have the X-5, 2m twin boomer, and the X-20 3.5m twin boomer) it just seamed natural, however i was told about the moulded EPO Chinese aircraft, as they thought i had ripped it off, when in fact it was the conclusion of research into wing types, and sections to provide the best performance with stability for AP applications.

What you see here, is the simplified version, the UAS version has many upgrades required to meet various agancy rulings (CAA etc), also the weight of the UAS version is much higher, we use a mechanical catapult for launching.

In my spec, i have rated it down to 4 x 4/5/6s packs, however with the bays in the wings used too, this becomes too heavy to hand launch, hence the rationalle for 35 mins with an off the shelf power system. (again rated down)

we have had 1.5 hours on 4 sets of packs, and distances way beyond anything allowed by law on civil land. But in the essence of trying to keep everything affordable for the average modeller/FPV'er, this is the simplified air vehicle.

Just to be clear, we are a model manufacturer as well, this is designed, manufactured in house, along with all of the AP, and sensor systems. So its NOT a moulded 1 of 10000 out of china.

However, the kit if made up of 8 parts, pre-made to its in essence ARTF style not ground up kit.

Armed with a hot glue gun, some epoxy, scalpel and the most basic of tools, this can be built in a day (and i did with the proto types)

(lol....and i knew someone would pick up in the Viper/cobra! thing....had much ribbing and dampening of the uphostery at that from my colleagues and employees already! )

If there is anything else you guys with to know please just ask.

Kind regards,

Mike.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 07:30 AM
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Finland, Pirkanmaa, Valkeakoski
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Mike,

maybe you could tell something more about the airframe, that's not on your website and that might let the $360/€280 appear more justified? You have to admit that the price tag is a bit hefty if you aim at - even enthusiastic - FPV'ers.
Is the airframe really made from Blue Foam as Daemon stated? How about the integral material strength of such a big system. I'm thinking wind shear, gusts or similar. Surely, the airframe was not designed for aerobatics but at this size of the airframe, I believe, the size itself can become a stability issue (as in material, not in flight stability).

The looks are - without doubt - intriguing, but at this price level, looks are not really enough .
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 07:19 PM
um.. yeah, I can make that fly
Carlos230023's Avatar
United Kingdom, Milton Keynes
Joined Jun 2007
3,767 Posts
I can vouch for the strength of green air designs foam, from memory it is extruded high density low mass foam that has a good sheer strength, a small amount of elasticity and is very hardy. I have seen your cadet built and flown and I was impressed enough to put a few of your models on my Christmas wish list. I must admit, the price tag is a bit of a downer. But I would far rather get a UK manufactured big wing instead of a super cheapo Chinese big wing. The X8 has died a death among all but the hardcore fans. It's cumbersome, the issues with strength and the hatch have only been overcome by adding copious amounts of weight strengthening the airframe, and I've read more report of them crashing than I have seen footage of them flying (unless its a crash video :P). I hope this model does well, if I hadn't recently purchased my latest 'big rig' model I would seriously consider this. Come on green air designs, get more information out there, perhaps an unboxing or even build video. I wanna see cockpit space (and measurements for it), motor mounting space, launching solutions and setup guidelines (elevon throw, differential, washout. CoG, Wing loading, maximum payload etc...).

CJ
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