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Old Jul 02, 2014, 10:04 AM
Changing Paradigms
Suenaga's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Feb 2014
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New Product
HobbyZone F4U S BNF with SAFE Technology

This is the re-birth of a thread was closed today by its original poster. Since I consider this to be an important new product (a warbird with SAFE) I'm starting a new one.

The old thread can be viewed here so you can get caught up on the fairly heated discussion that occurred as well as some good info:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...193810&page=18

Ive never been a fan of censorship or restricting conversation. Im sure we can all be respectful as we share our sometimes differing opinions.
I'll be placing a pre-order for this bird today. Iam a big fan of SAFE technology--it's what is teaching me to fly. I've toyed with the idea of a Corsair and putting in an Apprentice S Safe Rx to complement my Safe equipped Parkzone FW190, so now I've got no reason to wait. Now I can have the newest Safe Rx equipped AR636 in the Corsair S .


Things to be sure of before you maiden your Corsair S

1. If flying the ARF version, ensure your transmitter is set up EXACTLY per the manual. That includes reversing the Aux 1 channel IF that is called for with your transmitter model, assigning a switch for the 3 SAFE modes (channel 5), and a button or switch for Panic mode (channel aux 1)

2. Watch your horizontal stabilizer---it could become loose easily as it is held with just 4 pieces of tape. There are two screws on the left side of the tail that hold the plastic bracket that the stab fits though--make sure they aren't loose. Some have added a bit of glue to keep the stab secure.

3. Bench Test Safe--see post #161 of this thread for detailed step-by-step on how to do this--the post also gives a brief explanation of what each of the 3 SAFE modes do.

4. Do a thorough pre-flight check--all clevis's tight, control surfaces neutral, etc

5. Be sure to not assemble your landing gear backwards. This has happened at least twice on this thread and resulted in unnecessary nose-overs.



Here is a link to my blog entry on how to setup your Spektrum DX6, DX9, or DX18 transmitter with the Corsair S.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2238668


Jim

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...nology-HBZ8280


F4U Corsair S with SAFE™ Technology by HobbyZone (3 min 40 sec)



Here are links to some early flights of the Corsair S:

HobbyZone's Corsair S Maiden Aug 16 2014 (4 min 37 sec)


Corsair S (Hobbyzone) Second flights Aug 17, 2014 (4 min 28 sec)


Corsair S w/Pkz 3 Blade Prop Aug 23 2014 (4 min 58 sec)
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 10:16 AM
LiPo-Sucker & Airframe EMT
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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2010
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Thanks, Jum

You're doing good work
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 10:18 AM
Changing Paradigms
Suenaga's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Feb 2014
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AR 636 Rx with SAFE

We know that the receiver in the new Corsair S is a AR636 equipped with one type of SAFE firmware programming, the type in the Apprentice S . Assuming they look physically the same as the AR636 on the Spektrum website, the receivers have 6 channels. I am guessing that channels 5 and 6 are reserved for SAFE, even though they have visible inputs for servo leads. In otherwords, channels 5 and 6 are usable for gear, flaps, etc when the Rx is NOT programmed with SAFE. If the RX is programmed with SAFE as on the Corsair S, those 2 channels are not usuable by the pilot for anything else. The manual of the Corsair S does indeed indicate that channels 5 and 6 are reserved for SAFE and the Panic button.


The (6) channels in the SAFE Equipped AR636 are:

Bind/Programming Connection
1-Throttle lead input
2-Aileron lead input
3-Elevator lead input
4-Rudder lead input
5-Reserved for SAFE modes (connection not usuable when programmed with SAFE)---Available for non SAFE AS3X programmed Rx only
6-Reserved for Panic button or switch (connection not usuable when programmed with SAFE--Available for non SAFE AS3X programmed Rx only.

I am hoping that if any of this info is incorrect, a HH person on these threads can provide more clarification.
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 10:42 AM
What tree?
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Yucca Valley, California
Joined Aug 2005
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The product itself is fantastic. It's definitely a step in a good direction. I like SAFE. I like the fact that the RX is heavily programmable and I like that they've taken this step to make flight training about more than just your average boxy high-wing trainer.

I just can't agree with the price. Especially when you break down the prices and see what you're actually being charged an arm and a leg for. When the foam airframe of an airplane they discontinued years ago is almost as expensive as the PNP of the airplane that replaced it, something's very wrong.

Think about it this way. If someone buys this and crashes it and has to replace a significant amount of the airframe, it'll cost them nearly $170.00 to do so. They might as well buy the V2 F4U-1A PNP and drop their AR636 in it.

Maybe that's what Horizon's counting on.

I hope they come to their senses and pull an Archer on this one.

Also, the other thread being closed because of 'negativity' is just sad. Companies base their decisions on both praise and criticism. Blocking out the criticism because it's 'negative' is just silly. Especially when that 'negativity' is in the form of a civilized conversation..
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 10:42 AM
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Jim wonder why op felt the need to close it either way glad to be a part of your thread of the corsair s.
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 11:52 AM
Changing Paradigms
Suenaga's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Feb 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage View Post
The product itself is fantastic. It's definitely a step in a good direction. I like SAFE. I like the fact that the RX is heavily programmable and I like that they've taken this step to make flight training about more than just your average boxy high-wing trainer.

I just can't agree with the price. Especially when you break down the prices and see what you're actually being charged an arm and a leg for. When the foam airframe of an airplane they discontinued years ago is almost as expensive as the PNP of the airplane that replaced it, something's very wrong.

Think about it this way. If someone buys this and crashes it and has to replace a significant amount of the airframe, it'll cost them nearly $170.00 to do so. They might as well buy the V2 F4U-1A PNP and drop their AR636 in it.

Maybe that's what Horizon's counting on.

I hope they come to their senses and pull an Archer on this one.

Also, the other thread being closed because of 'negativity' is just sad. Companies base their decisions on both praise and criticism. Blocking out the criticism because it's 'negative' is just silly. Especially when that 'negativity' is in the form of a civilized conversation..
I got no problem "re-litigating" the perceived value again on this thread, but I think everything that could be said on that front was on the original closed thread. If folks want to add to it, that's fine, but you and I probably went on about it enough, lol. To summarize:

I think the value is there.

You think its a horrible value.


Again, the original discussion (which was mostly on the price) was at:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2193810

That thread is now closed for the reasons of the original poster.

Jim
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 11:53 AM
Changing Paradigms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.A. View Post
Jim wonder why op felt the need to close it either way glad to be a part of your thread of the corsair s.
He probably just got frustrated.

Jim
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 04:32 PM
Eye in the Sky
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United States, WV
Joined Sep 2013
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I will not speak much about some things, all I can say it is a pitiful thing when you try and have a reasonable discussion concerning a Product- ( and I will state my position again)- a VERY Grand concept I think is wonderful for all. I just do not believe an Absolute beginner ( and I am talking someone who has never had a plane or Sim or anything ) will be able to fly this plane and not have an issue with it, it being a War Bird.

Some people can pick up anything and do it , no problems at all, but not every kid will. And that is the Price issue I spoke of to a complete beginner . Some mentioned a rehashed airframe- I did not like that either to be honest and I said so. BUT that is Not really the conversation concerning this plane really. It is more about the SAFE Unit .

Now getting back to where I was. I believe when the establishment and it being the ones who Mod this stuff do things to charm some and harm others, needs to be reconsidered.

On the other thread I was made to edit a post ( I just wiped it out with a ------ remark )
I was accused of provoking other users ? My last remark was Horatio go blow your horn else where..............and for that grand statement I was warned and forced to edit ?

Some People can come online and speak frankly anything they wish, I like debate and conversation and respect others opinions whether I agree or not...however when a few can berate and say as they please and when you speak openly as well you get warned and on another occasion I got suspended for a few days, and btw when it concerned the same person------well to me that inequality is something I personally hate. ( and I do not use foul language nor speak with nasty slurs , also many posts I have seen on these forums ) which seem Ok to these Mods , but a few I see get their posts took away for doing the same ?

There are many subjects I detest and simply will never agree with, BUT I absolutely believe everyone has the freedom to believe them and speak them no matter what that subject is about, in a civil manner , that is.

As I was speaking to a person about their many contradictions on threads..and as I have learned and was warned by e-mails from others concerning them, I still believed in giving everyone an chance to speak their belief. But no matter what thread or where on this forum when that one and his buddy show up and start arguing about everything others say and you say anything, suddenly a Mod shows up and your either warned and made to edit or suspended. ( and it is no one on this thread so far btw--but give them time they will show up here to as they did on the other one..they are on my ignore list now as well )

that is why I bowed out of the other thread I see now is closed concerning the Corsair S .

As I am sure most likely one will take offense to this explanation and may do the same ?


But whether they do or not, I had my say.

I will not post concerning this Plane. I like it, I like the SAFE and I think it would make a Great 2nd plane after a Absolute beginner gets some stick time with a little better designed plane they can learn some with, shucks even a good Sim, would help them to learn orientation and maybe get some stick time.

And no at it's price tag, I do not think a " ABSOLUTE " Beginner should be shelling out that sort of money for their first plane , it being a War Bird . But that is MY opinion...and I have a right to it......or at least , I thought I did.....

...Sorry Jim , did not mean to walk all over your thread...your doing us all a good favor posting about the SAFE system in this and many other planes....

Now you know, so

My rant is done .
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 04:44 PM
What Goes Up Must Come Down
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I pre-ordered one a few days ago....getting a $40 discount helped with my decision.
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 04:46 PM
What tree?
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The $40.00 discount puts it right around the price it should've been. Lol.
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 04:48 PM
What Goes Up Must Come Down
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That's what I thought.
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Old Jul 02, 2014, 05:06 PM
Changing Paradigms
Suenaga's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Feb 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HGhost View Post
I will not speak much about some things, all I can say it is a pitiful thing when you try and have a reasonable discussion concerning a Product- ( and I will state my position again)- a VERY Grand concept I think is wonderful for all. I just do not believe an Absolute beginner ( and I am talking someone who has never had a plane or Sim or anything ) will be able to fly this plane and not have an issue with it, it being a War Bird.

Some people can pick up anything and do it , no problems at all, but not every kid will. And that is the Price issue I spoke of to a complete beginner . Some mentioned a rehashed airframe- I did not like that either to be honest and I said so. BUT that is Not really the conversation concerning this plane really. It is more about the SAFE Unit .

Now getting back to where I was. I believe when the establishment and it being the ones who Mod this stuff do things to charm some and harm others, needs to be reconsidered.

On the other thread I was made to edit a post ( I just wiped it out with a ------ remark )
I was accused of provoking other users ? My last remark was Horatio go blow your horn else where..............and for that grand statement I was warned and forced to edit ?

Some People can come online and speak frankly anything they wish, I like debate and conversation and respect others opinions whether I agree or not...however when a few can berate and say as they please and when you speak openly as well you get warned and on another occasion I got suspended for a few days, and btw when it concerned the same person------well to me that inequality is something I personally hate. ( and I do not use foul language nor speak with nasty slurs , also many posts I have seen on these forums ) which seem Ok to these Mods , but a few I see get their posts took away for doing the same ?

There are many subjects I detest and simply will never agree with, BUT I absolutely believe everyone has the freedom to believe them and speak them no matter what that subject is about, in a civil manner , that is.

As I was speaking to a person about their many contradictions on threads..and as I have learned and was warned by e-mails from others concerning them, I still believed in giving everyone an chance to speak their belief. But no matter what thread or where on this forum when that one and his buddy show up and start arguing about everything others say and you say anything, suddenly a Mod shows up and your either warned and made to edit or suspended. ( and it is no one on this thread so far btw--but give them time they will show up here to as they did on the other one..they are on my ignore list now as well )

that is why I bowed out of the other thread I see now is closed concerning the Corsair S .

As I am sure most likely one will take offense to this explanation and may do the same ?


But whether they do or not, I had my say.

I will not post concerning this Plane. I like it, I like the SAFE and I think it would make a Great 2nd plane after a Absolute beginner gets some stick time with a little better designed plane they can learn some with, shucks even a good Sim, would help them to learn orientation and maybe get some stick time.

And no at it's price tag, I do not think a " ABSOLUTE " Beginner should be shelling out that sort of money for their first plane , it being a War Bird . But that is MY opinion...and I have a right to it......or at least , I thought I did.....

...Sorry Jim , did not mean to walk all over your thread...your doing us all a good favor posting about the SAFE system in this and many other planes....

Now you know, so

My rant is done .
I can only speak as someone who was an absolute beginner 6 months ago. The apprentice S was the first plane I ever flew (the first one, a warbird, never got off the ground). After installing SAFE in 6 or 7 planes now, including warbirds, Im pretty confident I could have started with any of them if they had SAFE in them. The SAFE technology, once you take the time to read the manual, works that well. That's why I'd have no hesitation in recommending either the apprentice s or the corsair s to someone who was just like I was. The technology is just that good. It isn't just good in a high wing trainer. From a rank beginner 6 months ago that had never even held an RC transmitter before or even seen a real live RC flight Iam now learning on 6 planes and having a ball! None of these airframes were "tuned" for SAFE. HH had no clue about what I and a few others were doing till we posted on these threads. They provided no help in getting SAFE to work in these different airframes. It was all inside that tiny little box. The Apprentice S and the Corsair S, Im sure have SAFE "tuned" exactly for those two airplanes, but SAFE is still good enough to "safely" be installed in quite a number of others.

And its not "my" thread This is for all of us to learn about and discuss this new plane. As far as I'm concerned, everyone is welcome here.

You can see in the below examples how SAFE is working with each of these airframes--they aren't SAFE Zombies"--each plane still has its own characteristics , its just that it keeps the flight envelope tight enough for me to get a chance to learn how each one flies, stalls, takes off, lands, etc--they are all still VERY different planes.


(Here is safe in a pretty fast "Pattern" plane, the Carbon Z Splendor:

Eflite Carbon Z Splendor (4 min 6 sec)



Here is SAFE in a warbird---Parkzone FW-190 A8:

ParkZone FW190 Safe Rx Flight (1 min 14 sec)



Here is SAFE in a Sport plane--the Dynam SU26M:

Dynam SU26M with SAFE Rx--Beginner Mode (2 min 1 sec)




Here is SAFE in a twitchy little Durafly Fieseler Storch:

Durafly Fieseler Storch w/Safe Rx--June 21 2014 (2 min 27 sec)



Here is SAFE in a Big Carbon Z Cub (today)

Carbon Z Cub with Xoar Wooden Electric Prop-- test (4 min 22 sec)
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Old Jul 03, 2014, 05:26 AM
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But no matter what thread or where on this forum when that one and his buddy show up and start arguing about everything others say and you say anything, suddenly a Mod shows up and your either warned and made to edit or suspended. ( and it is no one on this thread so far btw--but give them time they will show up here to as they did on the other one..they are on my ignore list now as well )


I couldn't agree more. Every time the gang gathers (especially beginners) to discuss or even argue good naturedly, this guy and his buddy show up to tell us why we're all inferior and stupid. Always lurking around, he'll spring up at any time to ruin our fun.

As I read his latest exchanges, I kept thinking about how much he and his buddy resembled this:

A Christmas Story -- Bullying Clip (2 min 13 sec)
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Old Jul 03, 2014, 05:56 AM
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Many discussions of SAFE and AS3X remind me, and here I'll be dating myself, of the days when most automobiles came with non power assist brakes, non power assist steering and manual transmission. There was a lot of discussion about power assisted brakes, power assisted steering and automatic transmissions and why do people need these "goodies" when you get a much better feel of the road and control of your vehicle without these fancy extras. How many cars today, at least in the USA, come with non powered brakes and steering and manual transmission? It took a while but eventually the technology spread to just about every vehicle. I'm not saying that AS3X and SAFE will become available on every plane sold, but I'm sure that these systems, with lots of copycats from other manufacturers, will become more and more prevalent. Some will be tuned for beginners, but others will be tuned to give "power assist" to the intermediate and even expert flyer. So many strides have been made in this hobby during the last decade. I can't wait to see what the next decade will bring.
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Old Jul 03, 2014, 10:12 AM
Fly Low - Hit Hard
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Canada, ON
Joined Oct 2010
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This is, IMHO, the best thing since sliced bread !

I will get one for just for the sheer fun of it. I learned on the original several years ago and this is an awesome combination of sentiment and technology.

RF

P.s. I have a lot of disposable income, so I don't care how much it costs...please don't lecture me about it.
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