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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:46 AM
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Russian Federation, Sakha, Yakutsk
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War

For all the inane bickering and jabbing that comprises LTUP, I've a few thoughts on the United States in it's present condition / direction.

1. Regardless of party, Government from the local to federal level has become an onerous burden on the backs of the citizenry. We can bicker about how and why 'till we're blue in the face. However it's a undeniable truth.

2. The Citizenry is constantly disregarded. The electoral college still exists, and people of outsized influence, whether from money, media, connections, or all three are the true Captains of our destiny. The Citizenry is not at the helm so to speak.

3. The Citizenry has for the last 40+ years and especially since 9/11/2001, seen it's civil liberties eroded nearly to bedrock. For every guaranteed Constitutional liberty, there are dozens of 'work-arounds' able to be utilized to circumvent them.

4. The Citizenry, by large is afraid. Afraid to affect change as long as they have some money, a home and a car. The Citizenry is placated and afraid that speaking / acting out en masse' could jeopardize their marginally comfortable existence.



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We went to war with the most powerful Empire in the world in the 1700's over far less grievous circumstances.

My questions are:

When will the 2nd American Civil War start?

What would the factions be?

Will the American People be able to open their eyes from petty partisan blindness and unite?

What safeguards for the new federal Government would need to be instituted to prevent it's usurpation of power from occurring again?
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogChief View Post
For all the inane bickering and jabbing that comprises LTUP, I've a few thoughts on the United States in it's present condition / direction.

1. Regardless of party, Government from the local to federal level has become an onerous burden on the backs of the citizenry. We can bicker about how and why 'till we're blue in the face. However it's a undeniable truth.

2. The Citizenry is constantly disregarded. The electoral college still exists, and people of outsized influence, whether from money, media, connections, or all three are the true Captains of our destiny. The Citizenry is not at the helm so to speak.

3. The Citizenry has for the last 40+ years and especially since 9/11/2001, seen it's civil liberties eroded nearly to bedrock. For every guaranteed Constitutional liberty, there are dozens of 'work-arounds' able to be utilized to circumvent them.

4. The Citizenry, by large is afraid. Afraid to affect change as long as they have some money, a home and a car. The Citizenry is placated and afraid that speaking / acting out en masse' could jeopardize their marginally comfortable existence.



--------------------------------------------------------------------

We went to war with the most powerful Empire in the world in the 1700's over far less grievous circumstances.

My questions are:

When will the 2nd American Civil War start?

What would the factions be?

Will the American People be able to open their eyes from petty partisan blindness and unite?
What safeguards for the new federal Government would need to be instituted to prevent it's usurpation of power from occurring again?
That seems rather unlikely, but, if it were to occur, then I would not see any conflict as a civil war, but rather a political revolution.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LVsoaring View Post
That seems rather unlikely, but, if it were to occur, then I would not see any conflict as a civil war, but rather a political revolution.
As I see it. A peaceful 'revolution' is not possible, as it would be guided / manipulated by the powers that be.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:55 AM
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The war will come when the US collapses under it's burden of debt and the unwashed stop getting their free stuff. It will happen quickly and it will not be pretty.

Our government will use this event to push us all the way to socialism.

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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Dayton, OH
Joined Feb 2006
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Interesting post. I could see a second revolution starting. I think it would be libertarians and independents and some conservatives who would break from the current government. There seems to be a huge pull between parties on larger government (less freedom) vs smaller government (more freedom).

I would see the same safeguards be in place as were there initially. I think we would only need to reset things and get back to the constitution.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 12:08 PM
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College Park, MD
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Second revolution... Yeah, I don't think so. Half the population doesn't even vote.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Joined Jul 2000
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I think the OP is incorrect - the people are not being ignored at all, what we have is very much the muddled mish mash that the public wants.

The partisanship is a bit of sideshow that lets people express their tribal instincts - the basic policies supported by all mainstream candidates and parties are very close - both here and now across the globe.

The public most wants the great muddle through - a tweak here, a tweak there, everyone gets what they want - and for the recallable past, it has got us by. The problem seems to be that much of what was possible in the recent past is more difficult now.

In the recent past, we had favorable demographics that gave a lot of leeway to inefficiencies - growing populations and growing GDP make debts easy to handle and avoid the need to say no to anything.

Now we see in the developed economies aging populations and contractionary demographics - aging families are savers - not spenders like young growing families - we yearn for the 1950s-and 60s when the baby boomers where starting their climb or the 1980s when they hit their peak earning years.

Now we have a system that even with the massive stimulation of current fiscal borrowing - still can't ignite any general growth or inflation.

We need a new mindset to live in a slower growing world - where populations are steady and where we cannot outrun our choices.

I don't see any of the needed factors to incite the OP's war.

the emotion of the time is not anger at all - it is disappointment, a much different emotion.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492 View Post
Interesting post. I could see a second revolution starting. I think it would be libertarians and independents and some conservatives who would break from the current government. There seems to be a huge pull between parties on larger government (less freedom) vs smaller government (more freedom).

I would see the same safeguards be in place as were there initially. I think we would only need to reset things and get back to the constitution.
Manifest Destiny was earned and it can be given away. If "Righteousness Exalts a Nation" was does immorality/debauchery do?
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Thank God the people are not in control right now. They are obviously lunatics according to the latest presidential poll I saw. Obama should be nowhere near even. Almost 70% say they think the country is headed in the wrong direction. So at least 20% of those are still willing to reelect the engineer of the coming train wreck. I don't want those people to have any say in the direction of this country. As soon as we started letting non-landowners and/or non taxpayers vote , we were screwed.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:21 PM
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Thank God the people are not in control right now. They are obviously lunatics according to the latest presidential poll I saw. Obama should be nowhere near even. Almost 70% say they think the country is headed in the wrong direction. So at least 20% of those are still willing to reelect the engineer of the coming train wreck. I don't want those people to have any say in the direction of this country. As soon as we started letting non-landowners and/or non taxpayers vote , we were screwed.
Does your mom vote? There was a time when they (woman) were not allowed to vote either.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:30 PM
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Great words and question dood. I wholeheartedly believe that there could indeed be a revolution. I would have never believed it but it would appear it may be necessary. I think rather than overthrow or some other craziness, it would be better for the citizenry to galvanize and stand up and yell, "Where did the money go?!!!!". And don't stop yelling until answers come.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FrogChief View Post
For all the inane bickering and jabbing that comprises LTUP, I've a few thoughts on the United States in it's present condition / direction.

Back in the old days there was no human civilization, and it mainly a hunter/gatherer society that people lived in. It wasn't until the advent of farming and domestication of animals that allowed people time to have anything other than a day-to-day sustinence lifestyle. With that new found freedom of leisure time that agriculture brought about people were free to develop other pursuits such as music, literature, and the arts.

Some days I think some people were better off pickin' berries.




Quote:
When will the 2nd American Civil War start?

What would the factions be?
The US Government Vs RC plane pilots.


The government will have another Kristallnacht, smash the windows of RC shops, confiscate all their stock, then they'll have jackbooted thugs go door-to-door taking our transmitters and locking us up into FEMA deathcamps.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by crashdummy6 View Post
.......... As soon as we started letting non-landowners and/or non taxpayers vote , we were screwed.

And now we can't even ask they have a photo ID?
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 06:05 PM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
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Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
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No civil war anytime soon - too many people on disability.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
Does your mom vote? There was a time when they (woman) were not allowed to vote either.
Of course, but she also is a landowner and pays taxes.

I didn't say we were screwed once women started voting did I? Did I say anything about minorities voting? No. I specifically stated, and meant, land owners and/or taxpayers.
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