HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Old Sep 08, 2012, 10:57 AM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,109 Posts
Discussion
e-Supra motor choice for ALES

I'm looking at a Scorpion HK 2221/ 10 - 3000KV with Micro Edition 5:1NL (Reisenaur) to use in an e-Supra strictly for ALES. Will this fit? Is it too much power on a 3S? Any other recommendations. Neu 1107 with which gb? Just trying to get my ducks in a row before the build. Thanks.
jaizon is offline Find More Posts by jaizon
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 08, 2012, 12:08 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaizon View Post
I'm looking at a Scorpion HK 2221/ 10 - 3000KV with Micro Edition 5:1NL (Reisenaur) to use in an e-Supra strictly for ALES. Will this fit? Is it too much power on a 3S? Any other recommendations. Neu 1107 with which gb? Just trying to get my ducks in a row before the build. Thanks.
I have heard good things about the Scorpion setup.

The setup I had in my Supra was a Neu 1110 with a 6.7 gearbox and a 4S 1300 65C battery. This ran at about 700 watts average and had way more poop than would be needed to launch OOS at 200 meters into 15 mph or so. I would probably go with the 1107 next time. Walter Higgins is flying an 1107 with a 4.4 Maxon GB in his Maxa and it is more than adequate.

I have ordered a Neu 1107 with his new slimmed down 6.7 gearbox to replace the 1105 with the 4.4 Maxon that is now in it. I will be running it with a 4S 850 65C battery. I like big number gearboxes and I like 6mm prop shafts. And I need a little more power. I have measured and remeasured and it looks like the new gearbox will be an easy fit in the Maxa -- it will be a no-brainer in the Supra.

Good luck. You will love the Supra.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Old Sep 08, 2012, 12:57 PM
Soaring Circuits
rcbrust's Avatar
Coopersburg, PA
Joined Sep 2001
1,974 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
I have ordered a Neu 1107 with his new slimmed down 6.7 gearbox to replace the 1105 with the 4.4 Maxon that is now in it.
Hey Don, any more info on the new gearbox? I have an 1110 with a P32 6.7:1 gearbox in one of my AVAs and really like the combination, but I believe I saw you post in one of the threads that the P32 won't fit in the Maxa. Is this new gearbox a revised P32 or an additional one? I also like the 6mm shafts.

Randy
rcbrust is offline Find More Posts by rcbrust
Old Sep 08, 2012, 01:10 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcbrust View Post
Hey Don, any more info on the new gearbox? I have an 1110 with a P32 6.7:1 gearbox in one of my AVAs and really like the combination, but I believe I saw you post in one of the threads that the P32 won't fit in the Maxa. Is this new gearbox a revised P32 or an additional one? I also like the 6mm shafts.

Randy
Randy,

See attached.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Old Sep 08, 2012, 04:53 PM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,925 Posts
Don,
What prop suggestions, and ESC suggestion, are you figuring for this motor 4S combination. LJ
Larry Jolly is offline Find More Posts by Larry Jolly
Old Sep 08, 2012, 06:30 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,589 Posts
Hacker A20 w/Gear Box, 3500KV motor version swinging 16x10 prop. has worked great on both Supra and Tragi.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Old Sep 08, 2012, 06:39 PM
Registered User
Modesto CA
Joined Nov 2009
165 Posts
I have one of these new P32 gearboxs comming with a 1110 3900 ( a new wind) for E Maxa.
If you do the ecalc thing a 16x10 is a perfect match. About 590 watts in with 87% efficiency.

Using the largest 3S battery that will fit in the nose and balance the sailplane. Probably a 2500 65C.

Jeff at Neu tells me that the actual wind is about 3750. Don't use the Ice LIte controller on this setup because it has a higher internal resistance and won't give the same efficiency.
Now if I could just get the servos in the tail figured out it will be a great ALES sailplane.
Mac37 is offline Find More Posts by Mac37
Old Sep 08, 2012, 07:08 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac37 View Post
I have one of these new P32 gearboxs comming with a 1110 3900 ( a new wind) for E Maxa.
If you do the ecalc thing a 16x10 is a perfect match. About 590 watts in with 87% efficiency.

Using the largest 3S battery that will fit in the nose and balance the sailplane. Probably a 2500 65C.

Jeff at Neu tells me that the actual wind is about 3750. Don't use the Ice LIte controller on this setup because it has a higher internal resistance and won't give the same efficiency.
Now if I could just get the servos in the tail figured out it will be a great ALES sailplane.
Mac,

Hold your stubs on that 2500 3S for your Supra. I used a 4S 1300 in mine (144 gms) with a Neu 1110 and to balance it it had to be crammed as far back in the fuselage as it would go. And I still needed a little tail weight. The TP 2250 3S weight 189 grams. I guess that's the bad news.

The good news is that an 1800 will probably work very well for you -- probably giving you 3 or so launches. And it will probably balance the plane if you stuff it back in the fuselage.

I'm just finishing an article on ALES battery selection. I have observed that many of these skinny fuselages make it very hard to get the battery weight where you need it to balance the plane. I've been running a 450 watt Maxa setup with a 1300 3S and getting two or three launches with it. (it has the same problem with cramming the pack as far back in the fuselage as you can) I'm switching to a 850 4S setup for about 600 watts in that plane which suits my needs better than the 450 watt setup.

I just completed testing this battery setup for the Maxa and got very good results. (One launch per battery) but a little less weight and a lot cleaner installation for changing the battery.

I know that 850 doesn't sound doable, but it works very well in the 3S configuration for about 500 watts and it will work well in the 4S configuration for up to about 700 watts. I will have a report and some data on this forum in a few days.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Old Sep 08, 2012, 07:34 PM
Registered User
Modesto CA
Joined Nov 2009
165 Posts
Don:
Thanks for the good advice. I think that you are ablsoutely right. It is going to be hard for me to get used to charging (or changing) batteries after every flight but it looks like that is what it is comming down to.

Mac
Mac37 is offline Find More Posts by Mac37
Old Sep 08, 2012, 07:37 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,109 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Mac,

Hold your stubs on that 2500 3S for your Supra. I used a 4S 1300 in mine (144 gms) with a Neu 1110 and to balance it it had to be crammed as far back in the fuselage as it would go. And I still needed a little tail weight. The TP 2250 3S weight 189 grams. I guess that's the bad news.

The good news is that an 1800 will probably work very well for you -- probably giving you 3 or so launches. And it will probably balance the plane if you stuff it back in the fuselage.

I'm just finishing an article on ALES battery selection. I have observed that many of these skinny fuselages make it very hard to get the battery weight where you need it to balance the plane. I've been running a 450 watt Maxa setup with a 1300 3S and getting two or three launches with it. (it has the same problem with cramming the pack as far back in the fuselage as you can) I'm switching to a 850 4S setup for about 600 watts in that plane which suits my needs better than the 450 watt setup.

I just completed testing this battery setup for the Maxa and got very good results. (One launch per battery) but a little less weight and a lot cleaner installation for changing the battery.

I know that 850 doesn't sound doable, but it works very well in the 3S configuration for about 500 watts and it will work well in the 4S configuration for up to about 700 watts. I will have a report and some data on this forum in a few days.

Happy Landings,

Don
Don,

I'm looking forward to reading your article.
jaizon is offline Find More Posts by jaizon
Old Sep 09, 2012, 11:03 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2011
62 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac37 View Post
I have one of these new P32 gearboxs comming with a 1110 3900 ( a new wind) for E Maxa.
If you do the ecalc thing a 16x10 is a perfect match. About 590 watts in with 87% efficiency.

Using the largest 3S battery that will fit in the nose and balance the sailplane. Probably a 2500 65C.

Jeff at Neu tells me that the actual wind is about 3750. Don't use the Ice LIte controller on this setup because it has a higher internal resistance and won't give the same efficiency.
Now if I could just get the servos in the tail figured out it will be a great ALES sailplane.
I bought a Neu 1107-!Y 6.7:1 which will not fit. I read that there would be another box, but could not find out about it !
Settled for a Hacker A20-6XL which fits great - with plenty of time to 200m.
TP 1300 3S fits great, goes in and comes out in seconds - so with 3 packs I have no problems. After 2 climbs and 2 x 12 min flights (s-bec) it takes 500mah back to charged....... Could do 3 climbs.
I had an early(ish) Maxa (No30) and the fin is very firmly non-removable - so I cut up the tail and put the servos in......... Rudder remains same place and the elevator is fully enclosed - but I made new bellcrank to suit.
There is no added weight to get C of G right.
The Hacker is lighter than the Neu, so I would have thought that a TP1300 3S would be equally perfect.

The Maxa 4M is a light wind plane, so do not get too carried away wanting to shoot off round the sky with a high pitch prop - 17 x 8 works for me.
esloted is online now Find More Posts by esloted
Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:48 AM
Registered User
Jebera's Avatar
Brazil, MG, Belo Horizonte
Joined Oct 2006
501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaizon View Post
I'm looking at a Scorpion HK 2221/ 10 - 3000KV with Micro Edition 5:1NL (Reisenaur) to use in an e-Supra strictly for ALES. Will this fit? Is it too much power on a 3S? Any other recommendations. Neu 1107 with which gb? Just trying to get my ducks in a row before the build. Thanks.
Dude,

This Skorpion/Reisenauer combination is very hard to beat, I have it and love it.
Don't expect a rocket but it takes my Pike perfect to 200m in 18seconds.

It swings a 19x8 CFK very well, I use a 45c 3s 1300 TopFuel and a 4cell 3A eneloops for radio, MKS's 6100 all around.

For me it looks more efficient then a 1110, with a little less power but remember you have 30s of motor run...

The wheight is fantastic at 105g (motor alone), the others are at least 60% heavier and you can fit a 3s 2200 easily and forget the extra pack for your radio...

No regrets and looking for more...

André
Jebera is offline Find More Posts by Jebera
Old Sep 10, 2012, 07:13 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,109 Posts
Thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful. I have decided to go with a Neu 1107 2Y w 6.7:1 gear box. Good balance of weight and power for ALES.
jaizon is offline Find More Posts by jaizon
Old Sep 12, 2012, 08:24 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jolly View Post
Don,
What prop suggestions, and ESC suggestion, are you figuring for this motor 4S combination. LJ
Larry,

Sorry for the delay, I was away from my notes. The motor is a Neu 1107-2Y 3100 with the new 6.7 gearbox. I will probably start with a 17x8 or 17x9 and work up if it is needed. I use Vladimir offset spinner/hubs and they result in about 1/2" smaller prop diameter do you have to sort of calibrate the computer programs. Calculations indicate about 45 amps (50+C) operating amperage. I am using the old Castle Creations Phoenix 80 ESC. I vaporized one of their newer ICE 75's in a brand new plane a year and a half ago with no apparent cause and am a little gun-shy still of these things. Let somebody else prove that the ICE's are as rock solid as the older Phoenix's.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Old Sep 12, 2012, 08:48 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebera View Post
Dude,

This Skorpion/Reisenauer combination is very hard to beat, I have it and love it.
Don't expect a rocket but it takes my Pike perfect to 200m in 18seconds.

It swings a 19x8 CFK very well, I use a 45c 3s 1300 TopFuel and a 4cell 3A eneloops for radio, MKS's 6100 all around.

For me it looks more efficient then a 1110, with a little less power but remember you have 30s of motor run...

The wheight is fantastic at 105g (motor alone), the others are at least 60% heavier and you can fit a 3s 2200 easily and forget the extra pack for your radio...

No regrets and looking for more...

André
These motor/gearboxes look real good to me. I have ordered one to put on the dyno later this fall.

With respect to motor weights and efficiencies, it is useful to know that a lot of the edge that these motors seem to have is in the Reisenhauer gearbox. These gearboxes are good for 1000 watts, have 6 mm output shafts and, according to Reisenhauer, weigh about 18 grams. Before Neu came out with their new 6.7 gearbox I was preparing to mate a Reisenauer gearbox to a Neu motor.

The Skorpion's have a great reputation for power and efficiency, but if you are looking for a little more power (or looking to run a little cooler) than the 2210 has, the Neu motors tied either to the new Neu box or the Reisenauer are worth looking at.

Based on my bench testing, I think the Neu's have a little more overhead than the Skorpion. (They can be safely operated farther above the mfg's published limit). When I was trying to work my way through the 1105/4.4 for the Maxa I was easily able to get thirty second motor runs at 600 watts without even coming close to Steve's maximum temperature guidelines (summer in Oklahoma, no fuselage ventilation). This unit weighs 122 grams with the Maxon gearbox and 88 grams with the Reisenauer gearbox. I didn't like the Maxon box because it was only rated to about 400-500 watt its 4mm output shaft and its 4.4:1 gear ratio. I could have paired it with the Reisenauer box and come up with a lighter combination which would have matched the published (and calculated power for the Skorpion), had a 6mm shaft, 5:1 ratio and saved a little weight to boot. But I figured that while I was spending the money, I would get a setup that gave room for more power (probably up to 750 to 800 watts if I wanted it or which would allow me to go easy on the motor for longer life and reliability. With the Reisenauer, the total weight would be 113 grams and the gear ratio be 5:1. When Steve came out with the new gearbox I was able to get the power with a 147 gram weight (about 1 ounce over the Reisenhauer gearbox. Considering that my particular drive configuration will balance the plane AND I didn't have to be concerned about fitting the gearbox to the motor, I went with the Neu. I suspect that they are all good. But if you want to give yourself the option of adding power in the future the Neu's are worth a look.

In addition, I know that getting a Neu motor delivered sort of tests your patience, but I have had absolutely incredible turnarounds from Steve when I have sent motors in for repair or modification.

Finally, in the US, both motors price out to around $280 delivered.

Happy Landings,

Don
dharban is online now Find More Posts by dharban
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted E-Supra pro NorCal Hobbies Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 May 12, 2012 12:43 AM
Discussion Xplorer E motor choices scarab Electric Sailplanes 7 Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM
Question Supra electric motor choice mty Electric Sailplanes 15 May 15, 2011 06:15 AM
Help! e-Supra Motor Recommendation Curtis Suter Electric Sailplanes 5 Dec 07, 2010 08:37 AM
Help! Suitable motor for a Supra style E-glider century_series Electric Sailplanes 13 Sep 20, 2010 06:15 PM