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Old Aug 04, 2012, 02:16 AM
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Maiden completed.....

Well that was a non-event. hold it overhead, left handed (to fly Mode 2) throttle up, with my mouth (right hand holding the TX and on the right stick for Ail and Ele)....... "Hey, I can't get any decent grip for much over 50% throttle!!"... but that felt like it wanted to fly off, so I just did that..... maybe 60% throttle.
I didn't even throw it AT ALL.... I couldn't, due to the weak grip. I went from it being above me to the left, to a slow 'push' - which was all I could do - and it just flew onwards as if it had just done a slow fly past me!!!
Dead level... no trim of any surface needed at all. It must have been the best handlaunch maiden I have had!!!

I tested the "cheater effect", but when I went from slow pass to WOT, it didn't seem to alter flight path at all really. I focussed on it really hard, even squinting(!!), LOL, but couldn't pick any ballooning issue.

The CS10 sounds awesome. It would be the best CS10 use I have - though my Meteor (1x CS10, and Su-35 2x CS10) both sound pretty awesome too. The Vampire just sounds a bit more so, which I think is largely due to the CS10 sucking the crap out of the few intake areas!! LOL
It verged on being a 'jet engine'. But... it is SLOW !!

It has massive "torque". The CS10 is like a V8 car engine. Do a slow pass, hit full throttle, go vertical and it just pulls away with obvious ease.
But it really needs some of the "torque" converted the SPEED !!

The first thing to do - which was more or less known - is to get it some MORE AIR!!
So I will do those "Top cheaters"... whether I leave them permanently open at first, or hinge doors right away. I am a bit worried that if they are left open that it will cost top speed.

The next thing it seems it needs for a CS10 is a larger exhaust diameter. But first is to add cheaters and test that.
I WBPU'ed the inside walls of the exhaust when I was painting over the plane, to make them smoother and thus slipperier to airflow. Maybe it helps a bit... maybe not at all.... though technically it should help at least SOME amount (even if that is very small).... but it is easy to do.

Hmmmm, I need to GPS Log it first, in its current form, so I can record and compare results of any changes. Somehow I never remember to throw in the GPS logger...... sheesh.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 02:22 AM
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No Rudders.....
Once again I see why I HATE planes with no rudders!!!

You can't fly a plane 'properly' without them. Bank and yank just looks wrong.
Today was a little bit gusty, though light wind, and that also made it 'waver' as it turned (tail flicking side to side) - not when flying a straight line though.
I would like rudders, but I am not sure how easy, or hard, it would be to do that viably.

But WEIGHT is not an issue at all. What was mine....???... 1230g ??
It could carry another 200g and not care!! Probably even more and still be totally fine.
The wing loading is MILES too low as it is now.
Thus why is 'wavers' in the wind, and floats for MILES when you decide to land..... it has weak penetration, though is quite streamlined..... but it flies/glides like a powered glider..... zero throttle and it still won't come down!!

So I don't mind adding another few hundred grams in whatever ways......
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 02:38 AM
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Retracts....
Hmmm, it is making me want to add those now...... then it would work as both handlaunch and landing gear methods fine. Though my enthusiam to add them is a bit low for now....

Flaps....
I forgot (more or less) to test my Flaperons and Spoilerons!!! I forgot what switches/pots I had set up! LOL. But I did find what I think was my flaperon switch (Rud DR). That enables both Pot1 and Pot2 to work then (Pot1 sets Flaperon amount, Pot2 sets Spoileron amount), but I had not checked it before flying and I THINK I had Pot1 at full - which adds the full Flaperon value I set if Rud DR is activated.
So I flicked Rud DR to activate it - whatever I had set - and UP it went, notably!! OK, so it was dialled in for Flaperons! It was like a 35deg climb! That was at a medium airspeed, so I slowed it down for a lowish pass and turned them on then.....
I don't know..... I guess it could then fly slower, but it didn't seem to help it lose any speed of note. I guess it really must have allowed a slower flight speed, but it didn't seem any great use.

I forgot to change things around (Pot1 Min, Pot2 Max) to make it run as Spoilerons then. I would expect that would have been useful, but not sure how much really. Seeing how the Flaperons hardly added enough drag to matter anyway.
I think it needs REAL Flaps..... which can go to decent angles. Like the previously mentioned 80deg or whatever!! And this plane seriously needs something to assist slowing it down!! Its glide ratio is something like TRIPLE of other 1100mm area models!

So I am going to add the Flaps, as that won't be too hard, and I am happy to add more weight in a few ways. Flaps would only add 30g or so, but I don't want to mess up too much before I GPS Log it more or less as it is now.
Later I will be aiming for an AUW of 1500g area for a start.
Retracts should add somewhere towards 200g - if I do those.
I also have some 4000mAH 20C batteries that would suit it well, now that I know that too.

Rudders.... I will do if it is viable, but I want those more than retracts.... probably 20g or so weight cost for those. Just 1x 9g servo, with a linkage between rudders. I would see if I could mount a rudder servo near the elevator servo.... that sort of thing - central and then it feeds out to both rudders. Just a quick think about that and it seems it would be easy enough to do.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 03:00 AM
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Great!

Got any in flight pics?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:58 AM
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I fly alone. Or try to get someone now and then. But really pics are pretty boring and there are hundreds around already. Same for videos, and it is really hard to make a GOOD video (plane not in frame... too small..... jittery... etc, LOL) .... plus the complete true sound never is captured on video.
I will probably take it out again tomorrow, if the weather is in agreement with that idea! And I have a fair chance of getting someone to come and video it.

I have begun the Flaps and Rudder planning. And might even do one, or both, tonight. (the Rudder is the harder of the things to do)
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 07:48 AM
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Flaps and Rudders:

I have done the investigating and planning of the Flaps and Rudders. The Rudders will be painful, but doable. The Flaps I guess are really a bit painful too.....

The Vampire had a pair of flaps per side - either side of the boom - and they are Split Flaps. Being Split Flaps is more of a bonus than a problem. But having the pair per side, and either side of the boom, is a nuisance.

By having a split flap you don't lose anywhere near as much structural strength in the wing flap area, and the way the Vampire is made it would be a notable problem for the boom mounting strength if they were more common full piece flaps. So split flaps are great for this case.

For an RC model purpose (seen later) you will need to make the front edges of the flaps pair to be one straight line. This is so the linking "Wire U", that you need to use, has a straight line to connect the flap pair together.
So you can't use the moulded Flap lines on the plane - but that will be fine because the new flaps will replace/cover those prior mouldings anyway, so it won't have any reference to look wrong.

To make split flaps you just need to make new pieces from 2mm or 2.5mm plywood - to the shape of the flaps required - and you cut out a recess in the wing underside for the new plywood flap to replace that. Each flap hinged from a pair of normal flat hinges epoxied under them. The Vampire wing is really thick in this area so there is tons of foam to work with, and it will have plenty of strength left so it won;t even 'care' what you had done. hehe.

The servos in this case will go right behind the wheel wells, between the boom and body. And the outboard flaps are joined to the inboard flaps by a "Wire U". 2mm piano wire should do for that and not flex, or very much at least.

And these flaps will be capable of the 80deg sort of angle that the real Vampire demonstrates in the video below.
I will not add Air Brakes, as per the real plane!!! Though they could actually be fun to have, operating in unison with the Flaps. LOL

I was going to start it tonight, but seeing I want to fly the Vampire again tomorrow (and GPS log it, and video it if I can arrange that), I can't start what could not be finished in just hours. So it will have to be done through the week.

Vampire Split Flaps at 1:09 area:
...
DH-100 Vampire - A Classic Fighter Jet (1 min 20 sec)


...
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:01 AM
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The rudders will run from a single servo driving one rudder directly and with the other rudder running from a 'cross wire' from the driven rudder. The cross wire is done at the tailplane level. Using piano wire, which might have a bit of flex over the distance, but that is not really going to make any notable issue anyway so a bit of flex won't matter at all.

I think I will run the servo wire down the other boom than the elevator wire runs down already.

But I am not 100% happy with the Rudder method, so I will ponder over that a bit more as I do the flaps.....
Though for now I can't think of any better idea.

...
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Any brand? can u pickup at most home depots and similiar stores... seems like a very good foamy solution...better then tape..thanks
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 03:19 PM
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I have minwax polyurethane is spray can...do you think this would be good also?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:16 PM
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Well, in Australia there are about three brands. But I use Cabothane because it is $25 for 500ml and others are $35 for 500ml. I don;t know if those others are any better (tougher), but Cabothane works well.

With all the coats on the Vampire it looks like a fibregalss gel finish. And it came back from flying looking as if it had never belly landed, in brand new pristine condition - though the grass was very nice, medium long, football oval quality. Pretty much the perfect place to be belly landing a plane!

Spaying can be hard to keep just where you want it. And masking off is time consuming and even detrimental to fix/tape on. So hand brushing is miles faster and totally controllable with ease.
I don't know what Minwax is but most are oil based. That means a longer drying time, which isn't too important, and there is no brush cleaning with a spray (as oil based paints are painful for brushes). Oil based are tougher too, which can't hurt. But then spray cans cost a lot per Ml too!
You have to weigh up the masking effort and result to use a spray......
And it would then need lots of thinner coats to get the thickness without running due to using too much per coat.
Maybe you have another foamie you care less about and can test it out to that - even if only to do a wing. Once you find a good solution (eg this coating task) you can use it on all planes always.

I think a tin of WBPU to hand brush on would still come out the best way.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:35 PM
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I decided I will do the Retracts as well.
But I will not fit the stock versions of them... they are MILES too long/high.
So I will mod that up to have more scale sized legs and the Vampire will be very close to the ground.

First the flaps, then the retracts.
Rudders.... after I am happy with the likely outcome of the plan for those.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
I decided I will do the Retracts as well.
But I will not fit the stock versions of them... they are MILES too long/high.
So I will mod that up to have more scale sized legs and the Vampire will be very close to the ground.

First the flaps, then the retracts.
Rudders.... after I am happy with the likely outcome of the plan for those.
I guess u decided to go full out on this vampire. Flaps, custum retracts..You must really like it... Also, Minwax also makes a water based Polyurethane...It drys fast... When you know what retracts work best please post a link of all that is needed,i may want to make mine an all out vampire as well...Happy flying
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:59 AM
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I will use compression oleos for the mains - but quite short ones. I will just make new mount plates closer to the wheel bays so the legs can be shorter as required,
The nose leg.... hmmm, I haven't thought of how to do that yet, as it is VERY short. Probably too short for any oleo, with compression spring, to be made that short viably. And the mounting is set by the battery tray limit, though I expect I can go right up onto that for the retract mounting.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
I will use compression oleos for the mains - but quite short ones. I will just make new mount plates closer to the wheel bays so the legs can be shorter as required,
The nose leg.... hmmm, I haven't thought of how to do that yet, as it is VERY short. Probably too short for any oleo, with compression spring, to be made that short viably. And the mounting is set by the battery tray limit, though I expect I can go right up onto that for the retract mounting.
Like this? I know the the nose wheel is a bit long but gives a good angle of attack for take off.

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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:29 AM
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hehe, no. I mean like the real plane.
They have almost no AoA by the looks and the nose leg is about two thirds of that length. The mains are probably a bit shorter too, to have it all remain level. But they do have quite large wheels.
They run the fuselage very close to the ground. Though your fuselage height near the mains look about right anyway.

I won't need nose gear created AoA as the flaps will take care of the take-off.

The other thing I find is that so many people say a certain plane has 'trouble' taking off, but when I have them they never do.
I think people are overly used to taking off far too soon and in a "leap", rather than a realistic length run out. Give any plane enough speed and it will either 'fly off by itself', or only need a little bit of help (SOME up elevator).
The Vampire video shows you the real plane's runout length... so just scale that down.... Maybe it is 1000m.... divide that by about 10..... = 100m or so. Not 30m.. or 40m......
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