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Old Mar 27, 2014, 02:55 AM
Blurry Iriot
Australia, WA, Swan View
Joined Sep 2013
167 Posts
Rant
Parkflyers-stupid?

So, here we are 2014.
Yet another year has gone buy and still my enthusiasm for our fantastic sport/hobby (can i say sport?)has not waned. It never will.
I just want to say that I love this hobby and dont want to be detrimental to it so my post is not trying to condemn anyone or place im simply trying to make sense the method causing the madness.
Whiteman Park is the state centre for model aviation.
This centre is fantastic and provides west aussies with a set of immaculately presented and maintained runways and amenities.
Yet I struggle to add it all up....
It is around 1.5km away from suburban housing not to mention the arterial roads surrounding the park(which itself is public space)
It is legal to fly very large(10-25?kg) extremely fast (300kph) jets from this airfield
It does not take much to figure out that 1.5km can be traversed very very quickly at 300kph(300kph=5000m/min. Personally I think 15kg traveling at lets go with a conservative 100kph would easily penetrate a tiled roof and the gyproc beneath(or a windshield) and still have enough kinetic energy to badly damage or kill a human being, and if it carried enough fuel for a 6min blat it could potentially fly 25km(CBD) before reaching its fate.
So in the event of a radio/mechanical failure it is entirely likely that a large fast jet could conceivably fly beyond the safe zone and fly into oncoming traffic or anything in its flightpath.
The powers at be have determined this site as being safe enough to use for purpose, I thank them for providing us with the privilege and hope for many more prosperous years of aviation in the park.
So being a member of the MAAA (and a responsible member of our community) I abide by the laws/rules provided by MAAA and CASA (two vital entities) which means I cant and do not just walk across the street and fly my AU$60 E-powered 160gm 50kph foam pusher in an empty twenty acre sport centre/cricket field. I can only fly it at a designated field 25km away not to mention the club fees and congestion. This seems to be based on safety.......and absurd, like an open insult to the intelligence, ability and empathy of the members of our sport . Even if I built a 98gm slowflyer I could still not fly it in a park because of council by laws condemning all RC .
What about paper aeroplanes they are pointy?
Can we run through the park humming with our arms outstretched?
If we choose to fly a Frisbee must it be under 100gms to remain exempt from CASA regulation?
Are rubberband powered free-flight models allowed?
So it seems that it is potentially very dangerous to swim at Perth beaches due to overfishing and big hungry sharks..... Sorry guys we are banning swimming.
How many people die or are horribly maimed from recreational motorbike riding ..... banned.
Smoking?.............
Drinking?...............
Rock climbing?.................
kite-surfing?..................
pruning roses?.............
Could we not ban dogs in parks? they bite people all the time.
How many people in parks are kicked to death by groups of drugged up or drunk teens?. . . .
Im gobsmacked, it just seems so draconian, to top it off the people who generally enforce the rules (council employees, vigilante members of the public) know about as much about the sport as a frog knows about its father and were probably 10 over all the way to work!!
Newbies in our ranks quickly leave the hobby(or go underground) when they realize they have to pay nearly $400 membership so they can fly a $250 foamy three times every second weekend 25km away. We need members!!!
99% of aeromodellers are kind, thoughtful, patient (mostly) people who care about there own safety and the safety of others. I personally feel that not being allowed to use public space for our hobby is detrimental to our hobby and greatly hinders understanding and acceptance of our sport and the longer this goes on the worse it will get.
Can we not work out some sort of parkland permit system like America and come down really hard on the idiots who abuse it? Inform the general public?

Am I looking at this the wrong way ? Can any one explain it better than hiding behind "safety safety safety" as clearly there is a large gap between "Safetys" depending on vested interests and or perspectives.

Regards,

Ben


Please feel free to reply as you wish and I appolgise for my appalling writing skills
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 03:08 AM
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oziflyer's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Sep 2004
519 Posts
Bad day?
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 03:16 AM
Blurry Iriot
Australia, WA, Swan View
Joined Sep 2013
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oziflyer View Post
Bad day?
Lol naa all good now might go for a fly....
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 04:42 AM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
3,020 Posts
I fly in parks all the time and of course it's all perfectly legal. CASR 101 describes just a few basic rules to be adhered to like altitude limits near airports, weather conditions etc, but technically you need the landowners permission too.

If your local council expressly prohibits RC model flying in a specific park, the you need to take it up with your councillors. To have them remove the nanny restrictions!
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 04:58 AM
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ernie69_2000's Avatar
Brisbane, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
602 Posts
Unfortunately if they no longer ban RC planes at the park you'll then have the golfers and other that were banned also complaining.

Seems us RC guys definitely do get a bad deal in regards to us flying.

Maybe they should ban cricket players for hitting a six as they might actually kill someone in the stands.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:00 AM
Suspended Account
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Sep 2011
510 Posts
Maybe AMAS can offer you some insurances for your park flying needs.

Also good to see Chad sticking up for his victims.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:01 AM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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It's not about insurance, it's about permission.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:09 AM
Suspended Account
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Sep 2011
510 Posts
The no flying signs are there for a reason. You might go there and take off when no one is there, then a small family arrives to spend some time at the park. You suddenly lose signal to your plane because you're using cheap orange receivers and all of a sudden a child is missing an eye.

Slippery slope.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:21 AM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
3,020 Posts
I almost never respond to trolls, but the scenario you describe is just so unlikely that it's completely insignificant compared to the risks posed by just living a normal life. The OP is referring to the proliferation of the nanny state idea that if you anything that's not understood should be banned. I also agree that it can easily go too far and often does.

When you compare the numbers of incidents associated with flying a foamie in a public park to the actual numbers of people injured each week playing sanctioned sport in the same parks, it's obvious that even spending one minute thinking about how "dangerous" RC planes can be has been a waste of time.

Sub
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:49 AM
Just having fun
oldschoolhg's Avatar
Australia, SA, Paradise
Joined Feb 2013
1,391 Posts
We (a small group of us) have written permission to fly in certain parks in Adelaide after writing to the council concerned, with a small description of our activities and insurance cover, under the acceptance that any complaints will receive a 'please explain'. Fortunately the council has allowed us to self police and knows that we want to be safe.
The areas are oval size and so we are talking about smaller models only.

Further to this, the Adelaide City Council has been quite pro-active, working with our casual flying group (not a club) to achieve an outcome suitable for all interested casual rc aircraft enthusiasts, to be able to fly at Victoria Park in Adelaide. The area is not specifically a model aircraft flying field and there are a few rules however they have been quite reasonable working with us and fortunately we are privileged to have such a wonderful place to partake in our hobby especially with councils approval. This has by no means been an easy road however with some compromise, and common sense, we have somewhere to go
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 05:59 AM
Blurry Iriot
Australia, WA, Swan View
Joined Sep 2013
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwbkx125 View Post
The no flying signs are there for a reason.
The park in question has no signs at all
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 06:24 AM
Registered User
Australia, NSW, Hornsby
Joined Jul 2005
633 Posts
Yup.
Safe as houses.....

Warning, Totally time wastingly safe yet gruesome pics contained in the links below.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...i#post18024630

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=injuri

Which way do you think the number of incidents would go if councils gave free for all access to fly in any park at any time?

There are good reasons why you can't & shouldn't be able to fly in public parks without permission & basic safety systems in place, the same reasons you shouldn't be allowed ride a motorcross bike in a park, or hit golfballs in a public park, or beat someone to death who hurts your kids while doing any of these things in a public park.
Al

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonic View Post

When you compare the numbers of incidents associated with flying a foamie in a public park to the actual numbers of people injured each week playing sanctioned sport in the same parks, it's obvious that even spending one minute thinking about how "dangerous" RC planes can be has been a waste of time.

Sub
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 06:36 AM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
3,020 Posts
Thanks for the links to gruesome pictures, but neither of those injuries are related to flying park flyers in parks. Those injuries occurred indoors while people were working on their machines. They probably occur about as often as any other power tool injury in your shed.

The point I made was that injuries to bystanders relating to RC aircraft are miniscule compared to the real risky activity happening in parks: weekend football. I'm sure dozens of people are injured every weekend in Sydney alone playing that game, yet where is the outcry?

Councils ban RC aircraft because they don't understand them, or a few fools tilt rule makers opinion at the expense of the many that can and do fly safely in parks. That's all.
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 07:14 AM
Blurry Iriot
Australia, WA, Swan View
Joined Sep 2013
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by _AL_ View Post

#1 Which way do you think the number of incidents would go if councils gave free for all access to fly in any park at any time?

#2 There are good reasons why you can't & shouldn't be able to fly in public parks without permission & basic safety systems in place,

#3 the same reasons you shouldn't be allowed ride a motorcross bike in a park, or hit golfballs in a public park, or beat someone to death who #4 hurts your kids while doing any of these things in a public park.
Al

#1 Any park any time? Yes that would be stupid, there are always going to be stupid people doing stupid things not the genuine, careful, cautious people that are the vast majority in the sport. I agree we do need basic safety systems in place for park flyers

#2 The council has blanketed all parks at all times and wont give permission...Because they have no idea what they are dealing with and it is heaps easier to just say no

#3 There is a BMX track and a skate park at the centre too. I whole heartedly agree that motorcross bikes belong at motorcross tracks and golfers best suit a golf course..................so to think that I could fly a Park flyer in a park........... wow thats radical

#4 lastly, I would keep my kids away from a park with chook chasers in it motorbikes are dangerous

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Old Mar 27, 2014, 07:39 AM
Fly it like you stole it!
DaZa_AU's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2013
1,927 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by benagen View Post
#3 there is a bmx track and a skate park at the centre too. I whole heartedly agree that motorcross bikes belong at motorcross tracks and golfers best suit a golf course..................so to think that i could fly a park flyer in a park........... Wow thats radical
+1 :d
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