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Old Nov 09, 2014, 11:57 AM
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Whats the best trex clone for a beginner?

Im looking for a good deal on a good quality trex clone, i see most 450 fbl do not have belt driven tail rotor, as i see most advice for beginner. What is the best clone model for a beginner?

Im looking models like Tarot 450 Pro V2 FBL, Alzrc 450 ProV2 FBL, Alzrc 450 Sport FBL. Garth 450 FBL ( belt driven tail) I do not know hot big issue it is if have belt driven tail or not for a beginner??

Pls advice and suggest the best 450/500 beginner helicopter in midle price level ( i do not plan to buy a align)
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Old Nov 10, 2014, 08:31 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Although it's not a clone, right now you can pick up a JR Forza, complete with 3s motor, for just $150. It's a high quality FBL heli, with super simple and efficient mechanics and a high quality tail mechanism.

Otherwise you can choose between Tarot or Garrt for a 450Pro clone, and Garrt do a belt tail FB version. Belt tails are far more forgiving of small tail strikes.

Some would say it's best to start with a flybar heli, which limits the choices, and maybe points you towards the Garrt 450 Pro belt version. Note that all the HK 450 Pros are made by Garrt.
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Old Nov 10, 2014, 11:30 AM
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For parts availability and high quality at a great price Tarot 450 Pro V2 FBL. For basic simplicity, torque tube is better. The tarot can easily be converted to belt if you want. As far as engineering is concerned, the machining and part quality of the tarot is just as good as that of the jr forza 450 (which l'm currently building!)
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Old Nov 10, 2014, 01:28 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Horses for courses

Some people are big fans of TT tails - I'm not. It seems to me that TT tails may have been introduced as a way of getting heli flyers to buy more spare parts. You only have to touch the tail to strip the gears. Align introduced tougher gears to combat this problem, but they charge a premium for them.

People often say a TT tail is more efficient mechanically. I think they base this on the fact that, under no load, resistance to movement is about the same for a TT drive as for a belt drive. Under load, however, belt drive losses remain more or less the same, whereas frictional losses increase with the TT tail.

I happen to dislike the sound of gears meshing - so to me, a TT tail also sounds bad.

The only advantages I can see for a TT tail is that it makes it easier to remove the boom on a large heli for transport, and you are less likely to have static problems.

Going back to the 450 Pro, my main beef with it is the sloppy tail mech. I fitted a GoGo.rc dual point mech on mine, which took out most of the slop and has lasted well over a couple of hundred flights or so. The other main improvements were the Tarot two piece servo and mainshaft bearing holder, which makes maintenance a whole lot easier, and the improved Align tail auto gear, which features a metal insert.

Comparing the Forza and the 450 Pro, the 450 pro has a relatively thin maingear, and an equally spindly tail drive gear. The Forza features a far more robust 5mm mainshaft. The Forza can also be stretched to run 360 main blades.

In the end, things like the local availability of spare parts might still direct nikki5 towards getting a Trex 450 clone, but I believe the Forza is a better engineered heli, and a real bargain at $150 at the moment.
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Old Nov 10, 2014, 09:32 PM
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I don't like the Forza rudder mount and that it is mounted to the frame, only on one side. The DFC arms are also plastic. Tarot machining is just as good or better. Replacement shafts and spindles (for 450 Pro) are cheap and can be sourced from multiple sources. The motor with the one way bearing on the pinion used by the forza will limit the owner to scorpion or forza or have to perform shaft replacement. For the 450 Pro there are myriad motor choices, again from multiple sources.
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 01:50 AM
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Tucson, Az
Joined Feb 2007
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I can not even think to compare a Tarot to fine bird like Forza . Clone knockoff to a hi end JR bird...Wow. Scorpion motor gee how terrible having one of best bl motors going. I guess what ever floats your boat.
Who sells the Forza 450 ? Heli-direct was out of stock. I see add in forum is this good seller ??
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 07:30 AM
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Lentar has both, can make side to side comparisons and makes some good points.

I was considering the Forza because of the present fantastic price on the kit, but I don't want to be locked into buying replacement parts from only one or two sources, however good they may be. And after the market is inundated with the cheap Forzas will the price of the already expensive replacement parts go up? To a lot of flyers cost is a major consideration.

To each his own and all that really matters is that we're having fun and are happy with our decision!
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 07:43 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Tarot ... CopterX ... there are many out there that do the job and you save money initially.

As the parts are replaced - you can fit better parts or same ... eventually over time ending up with the best ... and STILL in budget territory.

My Upforce SE V2 clone is now years down the road ... still flying ... Total cost incl. Radio battery etc. - a RTF deal was under $200.

In 4 years -

one replacement belt
one 1-way bearing - the Align version was very poor and failed ... went back to clone version and that's STILL there years later.

multitude of main shafts / flybars / feathering shafts - but these are standard size and cheap as chips from many sources.
3 tail booms - again standard item and cheap

tail end changed to Tarot one piece fitting - far better than any Align or other bits and pieces affair.

I have replaced my metal head assembly 2x - cheaper than fiddling around with bits and pieces, as they all wear and get sloppy ...

I feel pain when I hear the prices some people pay for a sunday flyer ... unless you intend to go all the way into serious heli stuff ... the clones do fine.

Nigel
ps : the spare CF barebones frame job I bought for under $40 has never been needed ....
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 12:35 PM
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Kauai
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Forza uses a 6mm Mainshaft and 4mm tail.I have a lot of Tarot parts,dfc heads,tails etc.There is no comparison in quality,Jr is very consistent,Tarot varies from batch to batch and sometimes missassembles their own parts.Alot of threads to that affect.Any 4mm shaft motor is easy to convert with the Scopion Forza shaft.
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 02:53 PM
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A replacement Tarot main shaft costs $1.49. As far as quality goes, the fit, finish and machining that I have seen is just as good.

For comparison, I have the Forza head next to the split lock DFC head from Tarot. Just compare the two and draw your own conclusions.

I also have a picture next to a split lock DFC head from VWinRC. Note the finish of the VWinRC head, the split lock and the metal DFC arms.

Whatever you may think, there is tremendous choice with the 450 Pros. You can put whatever head you prefer. I am even using the excellent Tarot dual digit DFC swash in the VWinRC heli.

With the Forza, you just have to use the JR head and swash, because of the 6mm main shaft.
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 04:27 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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For me the answer is simple - for anyone learning, they dont need to be bogged down limited to a specific supplier .... the standard 450 is the better route, as parts and info is widespread on the web and in shops.

There's good reason why such as the 450 SE V2 and later Pros became so popular.

Nigel
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 06:09 PM
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Kauai
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The Forza main shaft is about $5, but I've never changed one!The plastic dfc arms are a good thing, they save you from screwing up the other head parts, and they can flex, another good thing for Dfc heads.Buy the clone, it will teach you a lot about assembly and part fit!
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Old Nov 12, 2014, 12:56 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,985 Posts
Forza quality

I just got my Forza kit today! Lentar, what are you on? There is simply no comparison between the Forza and a Tarot. Everything about the Forza speaks of high quality. It comes in a really nicely printed box, with everything packed and bagged. The screws are high quality - and a perfect fit for my hex drivers. By contrast, the smaller Tarot bolts seem to fall some way between a 1.5mm and a 1/16" hex driver.

The plastic mouldings also seem precise, and the locating tabs and dowels are a perfect fit in the carbon frames. I can honestly say I really enjoyed building the Forza tonight (a dry build, without threadlock for the most part, since I still need to sort out some flight packs and a few other bits)

As for the DFC links - I think plastic is the perfect material choice for a 450 size heli. It keeps the weight down, and it has the necessary flexibility to cope with any angular movement of the feathering spindle.

The canopy is nice, and even the grommets seem high quality, and able to stand up to repeated use without tearing apart.

I've not weighed the Forza, but it feels a lot lighter than my 450 Pros, and it looks like it will be simpler to work on. There's 29mm between the frames, so more ESC's will fit internally - the Pro only gives you 26mm. The servo wires can be routed internally quite easily.

My only gripes are the limited room for battery packs under the canopy, and my kit was short of one M2x8 bolt.....
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Old Nov 12, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Well l had to use a rotary tool to extend the slot to accomodate a ds525m on the tail. Even the bottom plate adapters are plastic. The screws are precise but m2 x 6 are still tiny. Anyway the op is asking for a beginner friendly=cheap readily available spares heli. l can't understand how anyone can recommend a forza for that requirement.
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Old Nov 12, 2014, 11:20 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Well l had to use a rotary tool to extend the slot to accomodate a ds525m on the tail. Even the bottom plate adapters are plastic. The screws are precise but m2 x 6 are still tiny. Anyway the op is asking for a beginner friendly=cheap readily available spares heli. l can't understand how anyone can recommend a forza for that requirement.
Totally agree ....

Why shackle the poor guy before he even starts !!

Nigel
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