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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:06 PM
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New Product
140mm FAN anyone interested?

This fan is from a school project. This project was not able to be completed within time(the project is now in a pause since 2012). However, as part of the project, the design of the fan is completed. I believe it can be used on a EDF. I'm just wondering how many people are interested in buying one of these if I can have it produced for sale.
The OD is 140mm and the ID is 31mm. The 10 blades are made of carbon fiber. The fan is design to survive the centrifugal force at a speed of 60000RPM, but it's only been tested at 27000RPM. The trust is not been tested.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:24 PM
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Looks cool and probably would work in a 6 in byron fan with a little work

Why's size motor shaft is required? Is it balanced?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:23 PM
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Interesting; intended to be a direct drive turbofan huh? What turbine were you going to be using?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:29 PM
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This prototype was balanced. But it was not for a electric motor. Just curious if it's worth a try to use this design on a EDF.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:47 PM
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Bingo. It would be a modified turbine with 2~3 turbine stages from a usual mini turbine engine
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 07:53 AM
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Very interesting suns25, The hub is kind of small at 31mm. Motors needed to power it would be 40mm min. up to 56mm. That size fan will eat a lot of watts. When you ran it @27,000 what powered it and how much HP did it take to get there. If it was not in a shroud then you might have only seen half of the power that would be needed for a ducted fan.

Dean
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 05:01 PM
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We tested on a CNC machine. The mission was to design a fan that can survive extremely high rotational speed, so the power consumption was not recorded, but it would be interesting if we had the record...I don't play with RC aircrafts, but I think there are RC people out there who want to push the ability of a ducted fan to a higher limit, higher thrust but small in size without considering its efficiency. 40mm and 56mm are probably the standard sizes, i don't know if you can increase the length of the motor so it can generate more torque?
Then the final product will be a ducted fan with a 140mm ID with a longer length (more like a turbine engine haha) which can run at 30000RPM and hopefully generate a lot more thrust than those existing 120mm ducted fans. The cost and the outcome may not be easily justified but I look at it as a hobby.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 05:09 PM
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Or make the hub 40+mm and than more space for more blades! it will look good too!
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 07:10 PM
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Not a lot of fans in our hobby over 120mm. 144mm would make a lot of thrust. Power requirements would depend on the blade pitch and count. It looks like you have about 12 blades? Its a nice looking rotor. If you want to test it as an R/C ducted fan you would need to make a housing (shroud) and install stators to straighten the air flow. Anything of that size with a high pitch blade set will take at least 6 H.P. to power it but probably make close to 20Lbs of thrust. You would need a motor in the 50+mm size range and as a guess would say around 550 to 650Kv on 12 Lipos with an adapter for the rotor to mount to an 8mm motor shaft. And a lot of testing to tweak it out. Now if you went through all that work then your next step would be to start playing with our big boy toy's. That's what us modelers are all about. Good luck and keep us posted.

Dean
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suns25 View Post
We tested on a CNC machine. The mission was to design a fan that can survive extremely high rotational speed, so the power consumption was not recorded, but it would be interesting if we had the record...I don't play with RC aircrafts, but I think there are RC people out there who want to push the ability of a ducted fan to a higher limit, higher thrust but small in size without considering its efficiency. 40mm and 56mm are probably the standard sizes, i don't know if you can increase the length of the motor so it can generate more torque?
Then the final product will be a ducted fan with a 140mm ID with a longer length (more like a turbine engine haha) which can run at 30000RPM and hopefully generate a lot more thrust than those existing 120mm ducted fans. The cost and the outcome may not be easily justified but I look at it as a hobby.
You have some great guys on this forum who would be willing to help you get the most out of this fan, if you are serious about introducing this size fan for use.
I'm sure Steve Neu can design, or has already designed a motor for this. Get some of the guys to test it in an actual EDF Jet and the rest is history. Some of us have some big projects, and we are just waiting for technology to catch up with them...

P. Richards aka SwatTeam
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 04:50 PM
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Just like what you said, a lot of work need to be done. I really want to get the full potential of this design and apply it as well....but right now I'm try to get my master's degree not much spare time though...
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 04:54 PM
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It's just a matter of time before I make this design work for you people who make RC airplanes. It could be a EDF or ideally a co-axial mini turbofan (I will start making it once I have a settle career...)
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 07:00 AM
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Looks very good. Incidentally I notice that it revolves in the opposite direction from all model fans. This won't matter as our electric motors/controllers work equally well in either direction, but may be significant to attach to an existing turbine.

Bit concerned about the 60,000 rpm. All carbon model fans are constructed in one piece so that the carbon fibres carry though continuously to their near enough 'opposite numbers' on the other side. Your design (I may be mistaken) does not appear to do this.

Quite a few modellers have successfully built and flown turbofans, but to my knowledge there are none commercially available. All have used a separate 'power turbine', not a direct power take off from the turbine shaft. 'Real' ones normally have a separate power turbine too, though not always. Similarly with model helicopter turbines. There are several model turboPROPS available commercially, and these have been quite successful saleswise.

Back to the RPM. 60,000 rpm should not be necessary. There are at least two model fans (electric) already commercially available of this size or slightly larger and they spin at about 20,000 rpm giving about 40-50 pounds thrust. They need in the region of 20 Kilowatts or more to do this. I do not think many are sold - they are on the large size for most ducted fan modellers, who in any case, are but a small percentage of modellers as a whole.

You appear to have the confidence of youth, so good luck
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Old Dec 02, 2015, 09:18 PM
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It's been so long...lol. but yes, the 60000RPM is not really that necessary. I was just stupid enough to make something like this in a hope to break the sound barrier at the tips of the blades. I was just wondering if it's possbile for a model fan. Anyways...right it's not continuous as it appears, but with the design and the way it's made it's actually continuous for each individual blade, the FE simulation result showed 60000RPM should be well within the limit. The existing carbon fiber fans have small OD to ID ratio. And the appeared cotinuous carbon fiber laid may not be real continous (bilateral weaving will not alway be radial for every balde...
I really hope to see someone who can make a linear turbofan with bypass flow....not a turboprop....or with a complete seperate shaft
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