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Old Feb 10, 2013, 12:14 AM
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New Zealand, Canterbury, Rolleston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohersh View Post
I'm a 3D guy so I set up all the throws to full limit on the outermost horn hole.
That is the least deflection.

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I thought the surface deflection was very small
Which it would be.

Question - what Tx were you using? If it was the 6ch HK then the right hand switch changes the rates.

Quote:
but launched the plane into 8-10kt wind and it was immediately overwhelmed.
Might bounce around a bit (turbulence from trees especially) but you should still be able to control it if setup OK. Enough throttle? Full throttle pull back and climb near vertical. Then sort out the gliding. Can't climb? Propeller on the wrong way. Make sure the writing (6x4 or what ever) is on the front side.

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So is this typical of these planes in general with their docile behavior and small throws on a windy day? Or is it just crap servos installed in the RTF version.
Alternative as mentioned, hinges too stiff.

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I see pictures of it flying inverted,
Inverted? Yes, easy.

Wind? Full power and have a blast throwing it around all over the sky and under control.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 12:56 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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An FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac50L View Post
That is the least deflection.



Which it would be.

Question - what Tx were you using? If it was the 6ch HK then the right hand switch changes the rates.



Might bounce around a bit (turbulence from trees especially) but you should still be able to control it if setup OK. Enough throttle? Full throttle pull back and climb near vertical. Then sort out the gliding. Can't climb? Propeller on the wrong way. Make sure the writing (6x4 or what ever) is on the front side.
.
That does not apply to all props. Many props come with the writing on the back of the prop (i.e. Almost ALL Multiplex planes come that way). It would be more accurate to say - Ignore all the letters and numbers on the prop. I encourage you to share the pic below which I must have posted 100's of times that takes the mystery out of prop orientation.
Other that little bit, I liked all of your responses. Well done.
AJ
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:36 AM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
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[QUOTE=Mac50L;24088165]That is the least deflection.

Depends if he was talking about the outer hole on the servo arm or the control horn!

B!
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:48 AM
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Lincoln, CA
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Honk if you love horns!!

[QUOTE=Fugitive_Bill;24088579]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac50L View Post
That is the least deflection.

Depends if he was talking about the outer hole on the servo arm or the control horn!

B!
Good point. However, in post #17671, he is quoted as typing "outermost horn hole". Later in the original post, he corrected it to inner most hole. I think everyone got on the same page since then.
AJ
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 03:19 AM
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Horn on the moving surface, arm on the servo - are we agreed with that terminology?

So maximum surface movement = outer hole on arm, inner hole on horn.

Moving surface(s) = elevator, rudder or ailerons.

Sorry AJ, I should have posted your diagram, it is the best.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 04:39 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac50L View Post
Horn on the moving surface, arm on the servo - are we agreed with that terminology?

So maximum surface movement = outer hole on arm, inner hole on horn.

Moving surface(s) = elevator, rudder or ailerons.

Sorry AJ, I should have posted your diagram, it is the best.
np. The important thing is that we are all on the same page.
AJ
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjr View Post
I got myself those NACA ducts. Can you tell me the steps you took to install the duct. I am a bit chicken to cut a hole in the nose of my plane..

Thanks

Shimmy
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 03:41 PM
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United States, FL, West Palm Beach
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Yep, i hurriedly botched my explanation of which hole i was in, I realize that screwed up a lot of the conversation. All my changes were made on the surface side, not on the servo I'm definitely appreciative of the confirmation that this is a capable air frame, even in wind. That what i needed to hear most. I was stunned that my inputs barely had any effect on the plane. I only mentioned 3D b/c I like big throws on my surfaces-even if they are not used and I've also never flown a plane like this before

Again, I should clarify its not mine though, it belongs to my neighbor who is learning to fly. I'm going to get with him and check the strength of the servos and also make adjustments or possibly replace the arms on the servo. The deflection is just too small or the china servos just cant hack it.

Yes the prop was on the right way and if it mattered it was a DX6i he had bound to it that day. My launch was Full power

What would really help is a description of the throw at the trailing edges of all moving surfaces is-on someons airplane that is flying well.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:16 PM
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United States, NC, Avon
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This is probably a bit basic for you, but here's a video on control linkages.

http://flitetest.com/articles/control-linkages

Also the DX6i has dual rate switches to limit the throw of the control surfaces.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 05:43 AM
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Liverpool, UK
Joined Jul 2006
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morning all

after a bit of a break I'm trying to get my Bixler back in the air

after an issue with either the motor or esc i have replaced both

im now running a D2826-6 2200kv with a APC 6x4 prop

havent flown her yet, but tested everything works on my bench....the amount of air the prop shifts at full throttle is quite scary
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 10:05 AM
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United States, FL, West Palm Beach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robschonk View Post
This is probably a bit basic for you, but here's a video on control linkages.

http://flitetest.com/articles/control-linkages

Also the DX6i has dual rate switches to limit the throw of the control surfaces.
Yes, I know about D/R switches and how to set up a transmitter, but I appreciate the help. Anyone got deflection measurements on their surfaces off a ship that is flying well? That is all I really need at this point
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:10 PM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohersh View Post
Yes, I know about D/R switches and how to set up a transmitter, but I appreciate the help. Anyone got deflection measurements on their surfaces off a ship that is flying well? That is all I really need at this point
Sorry to take this long to get this to you. This is what I have set on my Bixler:

30% expo on ail/ele/rud all rates.

AIL - +/- 3/4" Low rate, Max (7/8") High rate

ELE - + 1/2"/-3/8" Low rate, Max +5/8/-1/2 High rate

RUD - Max all rates, forgot to measure throws but control rod is attached to center hole of control horn.

Notes: Roll response is not good on this model so it needs a lot of aileron available and a bit of rudder mix to taste to counter adverse yaw. For a beginner, I might set the ailerons slightly less throw but not much. Again, for a beginner you could decrease the ELE throw some to maybe 3/8" up on low rate. The ele differential was not programmed, just what happened in the build starting with a centered servo. Rudder is small but is sufficient at max throw. I built mine with 250 watts+ and need some down ele mix of about 15% starting at half throttle. Even with stock power it pitches up some at high throttle but not bad so you might want a mix or just deal with it as it's acceptable without. All control rods attached to outer-most hole of servo arm.

HTH,

Ted
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:52 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohersh View Post
Yes, I know about D/R switches and how to set up a transmitter, but I appreciate the help. Anyone got deflection measurements on their surfaces off a ship that is flying well? That is all I really need at this point
Before you get into that, I suggest that you find someone experienced to fly it for you and get the trims setup. Ideally, you would learn to fly with a buddy box to prevent crashes. It seems that every time someone asks for the throws it is because they have not maidened their plane yet. Setting the throws is as individual as a persons opinion of the best pizza. Everyone is different. As experience increases, so do the throws. Make sure to take some videos to share with everyone. We all like them. Most of all....... Have FUN!!
AJ
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:51 PM
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United States, FL, West Palm Beach
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G550Ted View Post
Sorry to take this long to get this to you. This is what I have set on my Bixler:

30% expo on ail/ele/rud all rates.

AIL - +/- 3/4" Low rate, Max (7/8") High rate

ELE - + 1/2"/-3/8" Low rate, Max +5/8/-1/2 High rate

RUD - Max all rates, forgot to measure throws but control rod is attached to center hole of control horn.

Notes: Roll response is not good on this model so it needs a lot of aileron available and a bit of rudder mix to taste to counter adverse yaw. For a beginner, I might set the ailerons slightly less throw but not much. Again, for a beginner you could decrease the ELE throw some to maybe 3/8" up on low rate. The ele differential was not programmed, just what happened in the build starting with a centered servo. Rudder is small but is sufficient at max throw. I built mine with 250 watts+ and need some down ele mix of about 15% starting at half throttle. Even with stock power it pitches up some at high throttle but not bad so you might want a mix or just deal with it as it's acceptable without. All control rods attached to outer-most hole of servo arm.

HTH,

Ted
Thank you Ted With the stock VH setup to date we're getting half of your low rate throws and I'm nearly out of adjustment. These foam hinges are probably still a little too stiff and the servos are certainly the junkiest ones I've seen yet- $100 for RTF, you get what you pay for. I'll re evaluate the setup at my next opportunity. Thanks for the numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Before you get into that, I suggest that you find someone experienced to fly it for you and get the trims setup. Ideally, you would learn to fly with a buddy box to prevent crashes. It seems that every time someone asks for the throws it is because they have not maidened their plane yet. Setting the throws is as individual as a persons opinion of the best pizza. Everyone is different. As experience increases, so do the throws. Make sure to take some videos to share with everyone. We all like them. Most of all....... Have FUN!!
AJ
AJ- thanks to you also, funny thing is that I'm the experienced guy just trying to help out my neighbor who is still tuning up his solo skills.This was the maiden, afte a thorough g I'm fully capable of flying this plane, which is why I was embarrassed at the field to have to put it down off in the distance twice in a row. This should have been a toss it and enjoy a lazy flight event.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 05:43 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Throw me over and the ailerons too

Quote:
Originally Posted by kohersh View Post
AJ- thanks to you also, funny thing is that I'm the experienced guy just trying to help out my neighbor who is still tuning up his solo skills.This was the maiden, afte a thorough g I'm fully capable of flying this plane, which is why I was embarrassed at the field to have to put it down off in the distance twice in a row. This should have been a toss it and enjoy a lazy flight event.
I think you hit the nail on the head about those hinges. The foam (stock) hinges are a big hindrance to getting full movement. Put pin hinges on it and I am sure you will not have any problems with turning. BTW-Given your experience, I suggest that you just set the aileron throws to maximum from the start. This plane is a bit sluggish on turns (without any rudder) even with full throw. Several folks have put aileron extensions in addition to the full throws. I sure feel sorry for you for having to "land in the distance". I have done that a couple of times and I can identify with the embarrassment. Next time will be better - I promise.
AJ
P.S. Look for my video soon with a new ESC and LG setup.
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