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Old May 04, 2011, 05:13 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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I'm in

Picking up my B&F from the LHS tomorrow. She'll be flying on Hyperion 160 & 180 cells (of course), and she will likely undergo a Bravo SX/P-47 motor transplant - for a 30% increase in power over the P-51/4-Site/XP/T-28/F4U motor.

Joel
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Old May 04, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Do the hyperion bats make a big difference over the stock ones in these PZ Ultra micros?
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Old May 04, 2011, 05:39 PM
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Oh yes. At least in the Champ they do.
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Old May 04, 2011, 05:40 PM
semper mitis
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Ordered from my secret stash.
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Old May 04, 2011, 06:11 PM
Flyin' low & slow T-28s!
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United States, FL, Vero Beach
Joined Feb 2011
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I just received 2 Hyperion 3.7V 160mah 25c lipos today from rcdude.com.
They shipped quick and reasonable. I would have bought more, but I wanted to fly a few first to see if they're as good as everyone's saying.
There are a few sellers on eBay as well.

Mac
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Old May 04, 2011, 07:04 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeirs View Post
Do the hyperion bats make a big difference of the stock ones in these PZ Ultra micros?
Yes! You get more thrust, more run-time, and you can charge them @ 5c with an aftermarket charger (12-14 min charge!). Plus, after 300-400 cycles @ 5c charge, they will still perform like they did after break-in. Of course, this assumes that you don't discharge them beyond 80% as measured in mAh required to recharge. (Requires a charger that displays charge data). Discharging beyond 80% is the quickest way to kill your LiPos - regardless of brand.

See my blog thread on the topic for more info, plus independent load-test results & links to my favorite sources for Hyperion cells: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=1

Joel
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Old May 04, 2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Discharging beyond 80% is the quickest way to kill your LiPos - regardless of brand.
I didn't know that. I guess I'll have to shorten my flights from now on.
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
just received 2 Hyperion 3.7V 160mah 25c lipos today from rcdude.com.

hyperions are the best i got 3 of those

but i mainly use the hyperion 240 and 180

yes they ship fast !!
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Yes! You get more thrust, more run-time, and you can charge them @ 5c with an aftermarket charger (12-14 min charge!). Plus, after 300-400 cycles @ 5c charge, they will still perform like they did after break-in. Of course, this assumes that you don't discharge them beyond 80% as measured in mAh required to recharge. (Requires a charger that displays charge data). Discharging beyond 80% is the quickest way to kill your LiPos - regardless of brand.

See my blog thread on the topic for more info, plus independent load-test results & links to my favorite sources for Hyperion cells: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=1

Joel
is that even using stock props and motors?
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:34 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeirs View Post
is that even using stock props and motors?
There is a very noticeable difference in performance, even with the stock prop - although the difference is even greater, say, with the 5043 prop on the P-51, XP, or T-28.

The motor in the F4U is the same as the P-51/4-Site/XP/T-28 motor. The planes that use the P-51 motor pull more than 1A @ WOT. This pushes the stock & cheapie cells beyond their limits, as their true c-ratings are much lower than advertised. So, the voltage sags quickly, and the power falls off rapidly. With the Hyperions, the voltage is higher throughout the entire discharge cycle. Towards the end of the cycle, the difference is even greater, as the Hyperion's discharge curve is much flatter. This means that you get great power right up to the 80% discharge point, instead of putting up with poor performance during the last 2-3 minutes of the flight, as is the case with the stock & cheapie cells.

Joel
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Old May 04, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Thanks for the video, it's fun watching you fly. you sure fly low there maladroitfl!
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Old May 05, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
There is a very noticeable difference in performance, even with the stock prop - although the difference is even greater, say, with the 5043 prop on the P-51, XP, or T-28.

The motor in the F4U is the same as the P-51/4-Site/XP/T-28 motor. The planes that use the P-51 motor pull more than 1A @ WOT. This pushes the stock & cheapie cells beyond their limits, as their true c-ratings are much lower than advertised. So, the voltage sags quickly, and the power falls off rapidly. With the Hyperions, the voltage is higher throughout the entire discharge cycle. Towards the end of the cycle, the difference is even greater, as the Hyperion's discharge curve is much flatter. This means that you get great power right up to the 80% discharge point, instead of putting up with poor performance during the last 2-3 minutes of the flight, as is the case with the stock & cheapie cells.

Joel
Thanks for the great info
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Old May 06, 2011, 09:46 AM
Flyin' low & slow T-28s!
MaladroitFL's Avatar
United States, FL, Vero Beach
Joined Feb 2011
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Long, but (I hope) Helpful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by impostor View Post
Thanks for the video, it's fun watching you fly. you sure fly low there maladroitfl!
Thanks, imposter!

Well, I just ran my second day of testing the Hyperion 160Mah. I had run them in my T-28, but today I ran one in the F4U as well.

I was thoroughly impressed by the noticeable difference in performance by these great lipos. Not only do they start out strong, but @ 6-mins. (when I brought the planes in because the batts are still being broken-in) the lil' UMs were still chuggin' along strong -- and this was under breezy conditions. By breezy I mean that the wind was about 2-3 MPH but would gust up to 8-10 intermittently.

And lemme tell you something, guys; that Corsair screams at WOT with the Hyp 160s!!
I opened her up several times on return runs (downwind) and away runs (into the wind) and that Corsair was fast - no matter which way you pointed her!

BTW, I let the Corsair's motor cool for 10 minutes -- while I ran the Champ waaaaay up high -- then I put-in the stock 150mah lipo that came with the plane. The performance was average. No complaints, but nothing like the Hyperion.

I normally purchase Hyperion 180s, but that means the wider battery needs to be hanging sideways under the battery tray, or you have to widen the battery trough to accomodate the 180. There's no way in...Heck.. I'm cutting into this brand-new Blue Bird!
The Hyperion 160 solves this problem. Once they've been properly broken-in, I'm certain you'll get at least 10-minute runs (with throttle management) and no LVC with these lipos.

I have eFlite 150s, Tenergy 160s, Parkzone 150s and a few Hyperion 180s, so I enjoyed comparing them, but I'm already very pleased with these Hyperion 160s and have "found" my favorite battery for these UM warbirds.

I should note that I'm from the "School of Heat Management," meaning that I learned, long ago, the advantages of keeping your engines/motors cool.
I really don't want or need to run an ultra-micro for 12-15 minutes, because I feel that the heat generated is detrimental to the brushes and other fragile innards of our tiny motors.

Quote:
EXAMPLE: I recently sold my beloved 1972 Pontiac GTO hardtop. This car ran crappy in hot weather, so I purchased a high-volume electric fan that forced air through the radiator - even @ idle. The old musclecar ran much, much better.
Also, I always looked forward to the arrival of autumn in the Northeast, because when the air got cooler, that Goat would become a super car! Punching the throttle was just pure joy and a thrill every single time. I mean, it became a head-snapper with every gear shift!
Remember that when you run a bigger, (heavier) lipo, you're making your micro's motor work harder to lift the additional weight. Now add the fact that you can run it faster and longer, and you're begging for a shorter life span for that motor.

So, I truly believe that managing your lipos and your motors will make them last a long, long time.
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Old May 06, 2011, 02:09 PM
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Eugene, Oregon
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I only run 180Hyperions (without cutting.) Place two strips of double stick foam tape, cut to the size of the stock lipo bay. Then place velcro on top of foam tape to make flush with walls of lipo bay, now 180 will fit perfect without cut.
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Old May 06, 2011, 10:07 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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F4U maiden & flight report

Picked my B&F up at the LHS yesterday, and flew it in the parking lot. Problem was - shortly after takeoff, the wind picked up to 15+ MPH. That was one of the most hairy flights I can remember in my 27+ years of flying RC. The F4U does not like the wind! At least not as compared to the Sukhoi XP.

I checked everything over & decided that it needed more elevator & rudder, so I moved the elevator to the third hole from the top, and I moved the rudder to the second hole from the inside. I then centered the surfaces mechanically. Popped in a freshly-charged Hyp 160 cell & headed to the parking lot. She sat on the tarmac just fine, despite the wind. I rolled into the throttle & fed in right-rudder. The P-factor is significant on this one. If you're not good with the rudder, this plane will teach you to be. She was airborne within 10 feet.

At about 20 feet AGL, things went awry. The wind had picked up significantly at ground level. Up there, the F4U struggled. The wind made her balloon straight up & back over my head. I fought the sticks & got her under control. She didn't have enough speed to make headway, and I fought to bring her back to the parking lot. I found myself really wishing I had increased the aileron throws. In a dive @ WOT, she was just barely moving forward, and then backwards she went. She was heading tail-first towards a garden shop's tent that was set up in the adjacent lot. In a last-ditch effort to save her, I dove for the windward side of the tables & attempted a hover-landing. I lost sight of the plane during the last 10 feet of descent, but I managed to get her down without a scratch. Needless to say, I didn't fly her again.

As I was driving home from the LHS, I noticed that the flags were motionless. Since I had everything I needed with me, I went directly to the club's asphalt runway. I maxed the rudder throw & moved the ailerons to the second hole from the top of the horns.

I flew a bunch of Hyp 160s in the calm, and had a chance to really wring her out. I assessed the CG placement, and ended up with the Hyp 160 at the front of the slot. Even so, she acted like she may be just a slight bit tail-heavy for a warbird. See below:

Flight conditions:
920' AMSL
73 F, calm

Takeoff & climbout

The P-factor is quite noticeable on this plane, so takeoffs require a fair amount of rudder. Rolling into the throttle gives best results. Those who use some finesse on the throttle & know how to use the rudder will be rewarded with great-looking scale takeoffs. Climbout is leisurely as compared to the UM P-51.

General flight

The F4U tracks well. In the calm, low passes look great, and it's easy to fly circuits @ WOT just inches off the deck. Coordinated rudder rewards the pilot with scale-looking turns. She's rock-solid - even at slower speeds, but she'll drop a wing suddenly when slowed to a stall. Recovery is quick, however.

Aerobatics

Even with the Hyp 160 cells, my F4U can just barely loop from level flight. Speed bleeds of quickly during climbs. Even short vertical climbs are a challenge.

With the increased aileron throw, rolls are about right for a warbird. Maintaining altitude throughout the roll requires quite a bit of top-rudder & a fair amount of down-elevator, however.

Inverted flight is possible, but she doesn't really enjoy it. Later into the flight, it is difficult to climb when inverted.

Landing

Keep some power on, and she's a pussycat on approach. Use throttle to manage sink-rate, and use elevator to manage speed. When she's in ground-effect, relax the elevator a bit & let her down on the mains as you cut the power. She'll do a great-looking two-wheel landing, and the tail will still be flying during the rollout. If you'd rather do a 'carrier landing' - just bring her down as above, but flare for a 3-point landing & plant her solidly on the deck.

Conclusion

The 4FU is a relaxing plane to fly. She's rock-solid on the sticks, which makes it fun to do really low passes @ WOT. Shooting touch & goes is a blast, and she looks great in the air and on the runway. However, she is sorely lacking the speed & climb performance one expects from one the top-performing warbirds of the era. She should be capable of performing large, round loops. She should be able to execute a decent Immelmann. She should be able to execute a zoom-climb. However, the above maneuvers are not possible with my particular aircraft. In general, she seems to be flying too slow - even at WOT. The UM P-51 is a more capable performer. I suspect that the 3-blade prop is the culprit, and will be trying a 5043.

Joel
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