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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:02 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Didn't FDR defeat socialists/fascists?
Is this the provably wrong "like doesn't fight like" argument?

Different flavors of socialists have been fighting each other since the earliest 20th century, for example. Like fights like all the time.

Just because FDR didn't have a snappy hat and boots when he was at the helm fighting the fascists who did, doesn't undo or change what he did in the US.

Or negate the direct and provable parallels of his actions with theirs, from industrial control, price controls, bank controls, speech controls, the socialization of charity, or the establishment of racial prison camps for that matter.

Quote:
I'd say his results were fabulous, but in the last decade the neocons decided to save the free market system, by abandoning free market principles.
You must have some interesting goals if the results are 'fabulous'. I wouldn't call the disastrous legacy of beginning the intervention in the medical marketplace, or putting the entire population under the boot of an unsustainable, actuarially unsound wealth transfer scheme where it's payers don't even have actual rights to the resources they're paying in, 'fabulous'.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:13 PM
Registered User
College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Is this the provably wrong "like doesn't fight like" argument?

Different flavors of socialists have been fighting each other since the earliest 20th century, for example. Like fights like all the time.

Just because FDR didn't have a snappy hat and boots when he was at the helm fighting the fascists who did, doesn't undo or change what he did in the US.

Or negate the direct and provable parallels of his actions with theirs, from industrial control, price controls, bank controls, speech controls, the socialization of charity, or the establishment of racial prison camps for that matter.
Yet we became, and still are, the most powerful, and yes free, nation in the world. How do you explain that? Heck, except for the stupid drug war that a neocon unleased upon us 30 years ago, and the insane invasion of a country which we had completely under our control, we've been doing pretty good. Better than every other country in my opinion.

Quote:
You must have some interesting goals if the results are 'fabulous'. I wouldn't call the disastrous legacy of beginning the intervention in the medical marketplace, or putting the entire population under the boot of an unsustainable, actuarially unsound wealth transfer scheme where it's payers don't even have actual rights to the resources they're paying in, 'fabulous'.
Yes, the US is still a fabulous place, despite all your cynicism. Are you doing so bad financially or medically that you think the US is such a disaster?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:15 PM
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College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by Fokker Ace View Post
My father served in the Pacific in WW2 and was on a miserable island when Roosevelt died and always told me how some people cried but how glad he was when he heard the news. He hated Roosevelt and what he did to the country and never let anyone not know it! LOL!
And so he obviously let you know it, which probably explains your own political leanings.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Yet we became, and still are, the most powerful, and yes free, nation in the world. How do you explain that? Heck, except for the stupid drug war that a neocon unleased upon us 30 years ago, and the insane invasion of a country which we had completely under our control, we've been doing pretty good. Better than every other country in my opinion.



Yes, the US is still a fabulous place, despite all your cynicism. Are you doing so bad financially or medically that you think the US is such a disaster?
Easy. You actually think govt *causes* these things, I argue they occur in spite of them due to the inherent strength of markets and liberty
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:31 PM
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College Park, MD
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Easy. You actually think govt *causes* these things, I argue they occur in spite of them due to the inherent strength of markets and liberty
Don't tell me what I think.

I think these things occur because of the strength of our national character, the econmic enviroment so to speak, or at least what it was up until the neocons took over. Business succeeds because the entirety of the market is functioning properly. That means workers are getting paid a decent wage, making prices affordable, and corporations prosper without being greedy for the shareholders. Government doesn't cause those things, it fosters them, which is vastly different from what you claim I believe. It takes the three elements working in harmony to create a thriving economy, and what we've had lately is too much government spending, too much corporate greed, and not enough workers reaping the benefits of their labor. The golden rule was tossed out the window in favor of pleasing the corporations and their shareholders.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 04:52 PM
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Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Don't tell me what I think.

I think these things occur because of the strength of our national character, the econmic enviroment so to speak, or at least what it was up until the neocons took over. Business succeeds because the entirety of the market is functioning properly. That means workers are getting paid a decent wage, making prices affordable, and corporations prosper without being greedy for the shareholders. Government doesn't cause those things, it fosters them, which is vastly different from what you claim I believe. It takes the three elements working in harmony to create a thriving economy, and what we've had lately is too much government spending, too much corporate greed, and not enough workers reaping the benefits of their labor. The golden rule was tossed out the window in favor of pleasing the corporations and their shareholders.
And just who are the noecons again?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:10 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Don't tell me what I think.

I think these things occur because of the strength of our national character, the econmic enviroment so to speak, or at least what it was up until the neocons took over. Business succeeds because the entirety of the market is functioning properly. That means workers are getting paid a decent wage, making prices affordable, and corporations prosper without being greedy for the shareholders. Government doesn't cause those things, it fosters them, which is vastly different from what you claim I believe. It takes the three elements working in harmony to create a thriving economy, and what we've had lately is too much government spending, too much corporate greed, and not enough workers reaping the benefits of their labor. The golden rule was tossed out the window in favor of pleasing the corporations and their shareholders.


You say you don't claim govt causes these things.

Then you proceed to lay out a quite extensive list of interventions, mandates, and distortions, all of which inherently require govt to impose, and which you also claim are the causes of a 'properly' functioning marketplace.

How is arguing these things are vital, and that the cause of the prosperity you attribute to them not possible without them, not implying that the cause of these things, State power, is responsible?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:45 PM
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Jacques Flambeau's Avatar
Backwoods Alabama
Joined May 2000
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The problem with her argument is that the math doesn't add up, so typical of the far right.
We see that a lot. I wonder if it could be called NeoMath?

--Bill
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 05:55 PM
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Backwoods Alabama
Joined May 2000
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Originally Posted by BE77 Pilot View Post
You didn't read the article.
Sounds like an anti-Hispanic Neocon Fear Rant.

Nothing new here. Move along, folks.

--Bill
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:29 PM
Now fortified with carbon
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Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Daisy makes some nice ones.
Who is she?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:34 PM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Sounds like an anti-Hispanic Neocon Fear Rant.

Nothing new here. Move along, folks.

--Bill
Race card

Not all Hispanics are illegals. Only some choose criminal actions to come here
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:14 PM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
Joined Mar 2003
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The fight between conservatives and socialists is that we, conservatives, are bound by the truth and facts.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:25 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Not to mention the idea that words mean things, people and their lives, rights, and choices are ends not means, among other items.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 03:04 AM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
Punkie's Avatar
on a boat on the river cam
Joined Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
The fight between conservatives and socialists is that we, conservatives, are bound by the truth and facts.
Really?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 03:06 AM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
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on a boat on the river cam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Not to mention the idea that words mean things, people and their lives, rights, and choices are ends not means, among other items.
Honestly mate, have you considered writing in English?
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