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Old Jan 25, 2010, 12:04 AM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
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Originally Posted by PeteB View Post
Some vendors are listening. As previous mentioned, the Hyperion 720i NET3 and DUO 3 have the USB interface directly on the charger. Thus, the only hardware necessary to interface these chargers to a PC is a standard USB cable.
If nothing else Dave listens, he's incorporated many of the suggested changes offered up by users!

Jack
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:26 AM
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Sorry, I have a tendancy to beat a dead horse sometimes.

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Originally Posted by jfetter View Post
I have a dongle for my Cellpro 10s, I have a dongle for my Hyperion Duo, I have a dongle for my Eagle Tree data logger, I have a dongle for my Castle Controller, I have a dongle for my JR 12x... I don't want to hear about opto isolation or cost, anyone in the PC business knows standards are one of the key differences between wide acceptance and niche market, cost is also likely the same for one versus the other. Just add it to the list and see if they'll do it rather then list excuses why they didn't or might not have, if they say no than so be it but at least its been brought to their attention...

Jack
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:51 AM
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Count me in!

I have/had dongles for my:

FMA Multi4
Orbit Pocketlader
Thunder Power 1010C/610C
Schulze 636+RS
Medusa Oracle
CSM SL-720 Gyro
Spartan ds760 Gyro

The last thing I want to buy is another dongle! Do it right and put the USB on the charger!
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Last edited by Ohmic; Jan 25, 2010 at 05:51 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
I'm not really seeing the issue with the FMA/PC connection. I've used the same FMA interface with 3 different computers, on XP, Vista, and currently Windows 7. Never had an issue loading the driver or using FMA software. Speed has never been an issue since firmware updates are not performed on a daily basis. .
The USB External Interface (FUIM3) used for the PL-8 is much faster than previous models.

Also, it is the same one used for the CoPilot II, which is far too small to have an internal interface. I think it is nice to have one interface that will connect all my FMA stuff. There are guys out there like me who have a number of CP-IIs, S-4 and S-10 chargers as well as other FMA things. It is nice not to have to pay for an internal interface for each one.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by heymac View Post
Also, it is the same one used for the CoPilot II, which is far too small to have an internal interface. I think it is nice to have one interface that will connect all my FMA stuff. There are guys out there like me who have a number of CP-IIs, S-4 and S-10 chargers as well as other FMA things. It is nice not to have to pay for an internal interface for each one.
There are quite a few extremely inexpensive (i.e., < $20) peripherals that do have USB support directly on them. There's really no reason not to put this directly on the charger except to save a few bucks.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 06:44 PM
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And a few bucks is all it would take. When you are buying an external interface you are paying for packaging and inventory costs along with maybe $2 worth of chips. To integrate this on the board for this charger would be worth the $2 to me. Well that and the engineering time up front might take a EE 1/2 a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteB View Post
There are quite a few extremely inexpensive (i.e., < $20) peripherals that do have USB support directly on them. There's really no reason not to put this directly on the charger except to save a few bucks.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
And a few bucks is all it would take. When you are buying an external interface you are paying for packaging and inventory costs along with maybe $2 worth of chips. To integrate this on the board for this charger would be worth the $2 to me. Well that and the engineering time up front might take a EE 1/2 a day.
I also would like to see integrated USB on as much gear as possible, but I must disagree with your $2 figure.

The FTDI chip alone is $2.65 when purchased in quantities of 2000 units. Then add in $0.70 for the opto-isolators, $0.65 for the mini-b USB jack, $0.32 for the voltage regulator, and probably another $0.50 in the LED, zener diode, and passives if purchased in similar quantities. These "back of the envelope" numbers total $4.82 and we haven't even amortized R&D costs into that.

If a business added $5 of parts to their product and only increased the retail price of their product by $5 then they'd not be in business very long. The exact ratio in this case is unknown, but I bet your LHS has a 2:1 markup on everything they sell. So if you added $5 of cost to a charger that you could buy at your LHS then expect to pay $10 more for it.

I'm not defending FMA's position on the dongle, just making clear that it is not a simple $2 price increase.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 09:44 PM
I am UNIQUE!
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Originally Posted by SteveM732 View Post
I, but I bet your LHS has a 2:1 markup on everything they sell. So if you added $5 of cost to a charger that you could buy at your LHS then expect to pay $10 more for it.
You don't know how wrong you are!

Mike (Hobby shop manager)
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 10:15 PM
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That is one expensive ass chip!! Add $10 to my price tag and I wont mind. Its a $300 charger anyway...lexus of chargers really.

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Originally Posted by SteveM732 View Post
I also would like to see integrated USB on as much gear as possible, but I must disagree with your $2 figure.

The FTDI chip alone is $2.65 when purchased in quantities of 2000 units. Then add in $0.70 for the opto-isolators, $0.65 for the mini-b USB jack, $0.32 for the voltage regulator, and probably another $0.50 in the LED, zener diode, and passives if purchased in similar quantities. These "back of the envelope" numbers total $4.82 and we haven't even amortized R&D costs into that.

If a business added $5 of parts to their product and only increased the retail price of their product by $5 then they'd not be in business very long. The exact ratio in this case is unknown, but I bet your LHS has a 2:1 markup on everything they sell. So if you added $5 of cost to a charger that you could buy at your LHS then expect to pay $10 more for it.

I'm not defending FMA's position on the dongle, just making clear that it is not a simple $2 price increase.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 10:16 PM
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I would think 10 to 20 percent at the most.

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You don't know how wrong you are!

Mike (Hobby shop manager)
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 10:49 PM
I am UNIQUE!
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Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
I would think 10 to 20 percent at the most.
16%-25% depending on brand, although some like DA are much lower.

Mike
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 10:57 PM
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Hey, if you guys don't stop belly aching about lack of a usb port, I'm going to start whining about it not being 12s Its a ground breaking charger and we are still not satisfied. Can we move on? Or is this all we have to talk about?
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:49 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
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Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
Hey, if you guys don't stop belly aching about lack of a usb port, I'm going to start whining about it not being 12s Its a ground breaking charger and we are still not satisfied. Can we move on? Or is this all we have to talk about?
This is a forum to comment on it, a $300 charger shouldn't have a $5 proprietary dongle hanging off it. We all have many of them, we lose them, we confuse them, please,this is a no brainer...

Jack
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:56 PM
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I know Jack and I agree. Its just that I didn't think this thread for wishlish items or discussions of how FMA missed the boat with, this or that feature.

If that's not true, I'd like to re-introduce the discussion of going 8s vs 12s. 12s is the new standard for 600 and 700 class helis.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 12:15 AM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
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Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
I know Jack and I agree. Its just that I didn't think this thread for wishlish items or discussions of how FMA missed the boat with, this or that feature.

If that's not true, I'd like to re-introduce the discussion of going 8s vs 12s. 12s is the new standard for 600 and 700 class helis.
Yes but... Are you suggesting support for 12S packs (single packs) or 2 x 6S in parallel? I thought most folks modularized and didn't go for large packs (in other words, like what I do, all my large setups are 12S but the largest pack I own is 6S)...

Jack
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