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Old Jul 25, 2012, 11:13 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,874 Posts
That is simply a total disregard for wind and gravity, and you should be in jail for having that much fun. Good flying and good choice of music too. I remember seeing them do that tune back in the 70's
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:34 AM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
That is simply a total disregard for wind and gravity, and you should be in jail for having that much fun. Good flying and good choice of music too. I remember seeing them do that tune back in the 70's
Haha, awesome! I keep saying I'm about 3 or 4 decades out of my element . But thanks for the compliment

--Tom K.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 03:12 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
12,891 Posts
The dreaded down-wind turn, fact or fiction?

Fact. It happens. But why....?

The questions will go on for ever. But to me there is one basic fact for a plane to fall out the sky, snap roll etc, ........it lost flying speed.

Whether that is because of the wind, turbulence, gusts, thermals, downdrafts, gravity, planetary alignment, or any other reason, ......or even .......I dread to say it,.....pilot error , there will always be different points of view .

It's what makes the hobby great.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 10:50 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,874 Posts
Here are a couple more to add to the list. Radio failure (real or imagined) and thinking you have time to bend down and pick up your hat that the wind blew off. That happened to me with the Mustang after a couple of weeks of flying a sailplane that almost flies by itself. The sailplane had lulled me into a Zen state where I could watch it circle around and every once in a while I had to give a bit of stick input.

The sane part of my brain said "You might not have time to pick up that hat because it's a Mustang and it's not all that high" but I was feeling cocky and made the wrong decision.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 11:10 AM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
Joined Nov 2010
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Haha, yeah. I still love hearing the diagnoses. I was at the field one day (this isn't a downwind turn story, but still), and this one guy was flying a 77" Goldberg Edge 540 (beyond his skill level, IMO). Anyway, he was coming in for what looked like a high speed low pass. He was hauling butt, at idle, on a 45 degree downline towards the runway. My friend Steve called it and said "He's not gonna land, is he?". Anyway, he held that 45 degree FAST downline all the way to the dirt. It ripped the gear out and tore the monokote all the way down the side.

I walked out there to help in carry it back and I asked him what happened and he said "Well I was fixin' to flare and got some wind shear"........ eh, okay.

--Tom K.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 08:24 AM
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Chophop's Avatar
Pleasant Valley Modelport
Joined Sep 2006
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I worried about that in rc and full scale, it has been no problem in either, but more concern to precompensate in fs planes due to interia. Most models, unless a real chunk uh junk, will safely recover from a stall in a few inches to a few feet.

Some of the trainers I modified from existing plans, won't even stall at usual angles of attack, they mush down.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 09:17 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jan 2008
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I just crashed my House of Balsa Spacewalker again. It was windless when I took off and then got windy so I started making some approaches and was almost in a hover for a moment flying into the wind but was too close to stall speed i thought, gave it some down elevator to pick up some speed and it just pancaked into the ground instead. Not sure if it was partially a down draft or just a complete stall. Happened so quick. I would have been relatively happy all I did was break the landing gear off clean again and break the prop, but then I was fiddling with it trying to remove the battery and accidentally broke one side of the horizontal stab off with my knee!! Freaking broke the hardwood connector in half too. I should probably totally replace the bottom end of the rudder now also, it was already screwed up from a building mistake repair and previous crash landing.

Good news though at least for when she is back together again, adding nose weight seems to have eliminated the previous tendency it was having to tip stall.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 01:34 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
12,891 Posts
Giving down elevator probably also destroyed any lift the wing had if it was in virtual hover. It works if you are high and then have time to build up speed. A big push on the throttle may have saved it.

But then hindsight is a wonderful thing, now if only we had foresight of what was about to happen.

My rough calculation would give a stall speed around 16 to 18mph for the HoB Spacewalker. So unless it was quite windy, that hover could have been below the wings natural stall speed.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
Giving down elevator probably also destroyed any lift the wing had if it was in virtual hover. It works if you are high and then have time to build up speed. A big push on the throttle may have saved it.

But then hindsight is a wonderful thing, now if only we had foresight of what was about to happen.

My rough calculation would give a stall speed around 16 to 18mph for the HoB Spacewalker. So unless it was quite windy, that hover could have been below the wings natural stall speed.
Hey thanks for the insight. I'm definitely still getting used to it, and I shouldn't try to fly it in that small field really. It is too fast to fly close in without being on the verge of a stall and needs a good setup for landing. Yeah I should have powered out instead of giving it down elevator, total pilot error, was afraid if I went WOT it would torque roll with no room to recover, which would have been worse damage most likely.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 03:29 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
Joined Nov 2010
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WOT wouldn't be necessary. A smooth increase of the throttle to a quarter, then maybe up to half would be necessary. Eh, next time . Planes are expendable .

--Tom K.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 06:24 PM
Mach .09 Super Achiever
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Pleasant Valley Modelport
Joined Sep 2006
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Weird, last night on two different planes, I would go inverted then cut power, and they usually fall nose down and descend. But both planes were getting stuck like that with little or no control until I made them move by cranking power in. I was underneath a pretty dark cumulous cloud. Probably updrafts.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 07:43 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jan 2008
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Fixing her to fly again tomorrow. Found some carbon fiber stick scrap from an old foamie i build and destroyed before i knew what kind of motor i really needed, using it to repair the joiner wood between the elevator that broke in half. Elevator is reattached and wood glue is drying... never enough patience for that. I am just CA repairing my landing gear (again) though. I'd rather have the wood snap cleanly at roughly the same place again if have a too hard landing, than just rip more of the actual structure around it out.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 01:43 PM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
Joined Sep 2010
2,839 Posts
What's funny is I've been having this discussion with fairly senior people and experienced pilots, context is aircraft separation assurance maneuvers and collision avoidance maneuvers.

"If 2 planes are approaching at right angles and one is downwind and the other turns away from the downwind plane because of the wind the downwind plane is approaching faster until the turning plane can speed up'.

Shoot me, shoot me, shoot me.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 03:07 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,874 Posts
Well, it sorta makes sense as long as "faster" and "slower" are referring to ground speed and not air speed. The statement as quoted is a little confusing because of the grammar, but I think I know what you mean.

Nobody ever has a problem with a downwind turn at 9000 feet. It's when we are close to the ground and thinking about landing that the phenomenon occurs. I am assuming that the word "approaching" means they are working on their landing strategy.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Birmingham, Alabama
Joined Jun 2002
2,969 Posts
i think the entire premis of this post is newbie and boarderline moronic.

it was put to death june 26. why is there still discussion on it?
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